So is 6.8 spc the VHS, and 6.5 grendel now the Betamax?

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what are you trying to say?? Also, do you think I could trade a stag arms 2t for another stag that is 6.8spc?? I would want it to look the same as the one I have. check the website if you wanna see what it looks like.
 
All this tells me is that AA needs to allow more companies to make 6.5g rifles and that the 6.8 is more overrated than i thought..... Really, the 6.8 is a ok cartridge, but is very limited in a few (improtant) ways.
 
Haven't we discussed this eighteen times in the last two weeks? ;)

They are both fine, complementary chamberings. Both are selling slowly in their respective markets, and their respective markets have some overlap but are not completely synonymous.
 
Lol!!!

Hey gvnwst, what are the serious limitations of 6.8? I do need to know because I think within a year or two, I'm gonna get another bbl & bolt for the XCR in either one or the other. I had previously leaned strongly to 6.5 grendel, but now I'm thinkin maybe 6.8 is the way to go.
 
The main problem that 6.5 is experiencing is AA's reluctance to allow anyone to produce anything for it. The're trying to go 100% proprietary, which is a recipe for most people ignoring your product. 6.8 isn't exactly setting the world on fire, either, but it's doing better than 6.5, it seems, probably because you can order stuff on 6.8 from a variety of places.

Mike
 
I shoot a 6.8 x43mm and have bee studying up on the 6.5 Grendel as well as shooting a couple that I borrowed.

So far, my thoughts are that the advertised performance of both rounds has been greatly enhanced via a key board.

The whole idea of the 6.8x43mm was to make the cartridge conversion as inexpensive as possible. So the rifle had to end up as an M4 size rifle (carbine to us real rifle shooters) and that all the magazines and web gear had to stay the same size. Plus the round needed to work in the belt fed M-249 SAW system. The use of the old 30 remington case for the base of the 6.8mm works for that purpose. The whole caliber deal sounds like a classic govt' program compromise. The 6.5 bullets were better for range , plus accuracy, while the 7mm bullets had better destructive power against tissue. So they split the difference with the 270 caliber (6.8mm)

Basically I see the 6.8 as something of a souped up 30 carbine round.
I am firing 110 grain Nosler and Barnes boat-tails at 2,550 fps from a 16 inch M4 style barrel. This is in cold weather, such as what one finds in the mountains of Afganistan.

Even though I am using the best bullets (BC of .370) for that weight and length , being limited by the AR-magazine size and standaard AR action size, these projectiles slow down fairly fast.

Muzzle= 2550 fps
100=== 2315 fps
150=== 2203 fps
200=== 2093 fps 5 inches low with 100 yard zero
250=== 1987 fps 10.5 inches low with 100 yard zero
300=== 1884 fps 18.0 inches low with 100 yard zero


So at 250 yards, it is basically like shooting someone with an M-1 carbine at the muzzle range. With a pointed bullet instead of a round nose.

I tend to see the 6.8mm as a 250 meter, (maybe 300) cartridge. Particularly when fired from an M4 sized carbine, while using military grade ammunition which will not be as effective (or accurate) as my ammunition.
 
the advertised performance of both rounds has been greatly enhanced via a key board.

That's the impression I get as well.

However, the long distance potential of the 6.5 is intriguing.

IIRC, Zak Smith has a AI chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, and has used it to great success. I wonder how similar the ballistics are.
 
I still don't understand why they have to make the new cartridge fit in the M4 mags.
Isn't the army planing to introduce a new polymer mag to the troops?
So you plan to rearm with different caliber, plan to introduce new mags, and plan to replace the aging M16's/M4's. Now. what's the point for the mag size rquirement? They'll have to pay full price for the new mags anyway.

After 40 years, the 5.56mm did it's job good or bad and i think it paid for the investment. This would be a good time to start from scratch and design a new cartridge that will offer powerful enough and with good enough balistics to replace both, the 5.56mm and the 7.62mm rounds.
Is clear that 6.8SPC is not going to touch the 7.62mm teritory. The grendel has it's own problems driven exactly by the same m4 mag size.

:(
 
So far, my thoughts are that the advertised performance of both rounds has been greatly enhanced via a key board.

For whatever reason the 6.8 guys have a massive inferiority complex. Hence you guys getting extremely lucky in attempts to kill large critters at stupid ranges for such a cartridge. Then you get guy's reccomending 6.8 it as a 300yd+ elk cartridge.

Of course then there's the blue pill loads they like shoot through their barrels with that magic twist rate that allows a 18" spc to outrun a 22" 270 winchester, with no increase in pressure of course. I get the impression that for most 6.8spc reloaders it's the first rifle cartridge they've loaded for.



Jaws
Dollars to dougnnuts Whatever eventually replaces the m16/m4 platform will not fire ammunition in the sense that we use the word today
 
a question...

I tend to take a direct line approach to things, which is sometimes a good thing, sometimes probably not.
That said, with the need seeming to be for something bigger than 223 but smaller than 308, why is there all this research to develop a new round(s), yet never a mention in these conversations of the .243? 243 shoots flatter and would definitely increase the effective range over the 223. or for that matter why not the .260 rem?
 
That said, with the need seeming to be for something bigger than 223 but smaller than 308, why is there never a mention of these conversations of the .243? 243 shoots flatter and would definitely increase the effective range over the 223. or for that matter why not the .260 rem?

Because none of the cartridges you mention will fit in the ar15 platform
 
Hey gvnwst, what are the serious limitations of 6.8?

Comparative lack of bullets, mostly due to case length being too long (which is another drawback) and no cheap ammo. At least wolf makes 6.5g ammo. That was just my opinion. The drawback of the 6.5 is lack of anything related to firearms and accessories.
 
Not only has AA made a terrible mistake by keeping the Grendel proprietary, Billy has inflated his claims about its performance with little to back it up. The 6.8 SPC on the other hand has not only seen field testing in a war zone, but it has been in DOD testing circulation for several years now. It has not been officially adopted by any branch of the military, but it has not been rejected either. The Department of Interior has recently purchased some 6.8 SPC Bushmasters to test for agency consideration, and there are a good number of state and city municipalities that are using the 6.8 SPC here and there. Sometimes you just have to reference previously stated facts and opinions:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=396783
 
Not only has AA made a terrible mistake by keeping the Grendel proprietary, Billy has inflated his claims about its performance with little to back it up. The 6.8 SPC on the other hand has not only seen field testing in a war zone, but it has been in DOD testing circulation for several years now

The 6.8 claims were even farther off. The grendell was about 150=/- off, while the 6.8 was like 300+/- (IIRC)? Mostly, the 6.8 has remington to back it. And AA is being dumb with the rights.
 
I don't think that Remington backs the 6.8 anymore. It was Remington that caused the low performance by screwing up the chamber and twist rate specs. The loaded ammo that I posted is only 120 fps slower than the 2800 fps initial claim and that's reached by just using the improved chamber, use a 1:11 or 1:12 twist also and matching the 2800 fps goal is easy.

It seems that some people are purposely being obtuse regarding the 6.8s performance and the reasons behind it I guess for dramatic effect or to bolster thier case. And what's with the straw man arguement about the 6.8 getting .270 win performance? Whoever claimed that? Could someone provide a link to that claim?
 
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