so much for gun laws..... poor Plaxico if only he was playing for Eagles

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jlbpa

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In America's most violent big city, people accused of serious crimes are escaping conviction with stunning regularity, an Inquirer investigation has found.

Philadelphia defendants walk free on all charges in nearly two-thirds of violent-crime cases. Among large urban counties, Philadelphia has the nation's lowest felony-conviction rate.

Only one in 10 people charged with gun assaults is convicted of that charge, the newspaper found.

Only two in 10 accused armed robbers are found guilty of armed robbery.

Only one in four accused rapists is found guilty of rape.

The data also show that people charged with assaults with a gun escape conviction more often than those who use fists or knives. Of people arrested for possession of illegal handguns, almost half go free.

Nationally, prosecutors in big cities win felony convictions in half of violent-crime cases, according to federal studies. In Philadelphia, prosecutors win only 20 percent.
 
Always take that with a grain of salt.

Those statistics could simply indicate that a disproportionate number of innocent people are being accused of crimes. In that case it's good that they're not being convicted.
 
Better that a hundred guilty men go free, than for one innocent man to be locked up.

Absolutely.
In many other nation in the world you will find it easier to accuse and convict a person than under a system with the types of rights and protections intended by the founders of the United States of America.
The 4th, 5th, 6th ,7th and 8th Amendment of the Bill of Rights intentionally makes it harder to accuse, search, detain and convict a person, not easier.

So half of the Bill of Rights is accused or suspected criminals' rights if you wish to view it that way.

In most systems on earth the easier it is to convict an accused criminal, or deny them freedoms the less free the people in general are.
 
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I wonder if Philadelphia has mandatory sentencing laws for felonies, especially gun related. Are the jurors maybe thinking: "I'm convinced enough to put him in jail for 5 years, but for 30 years? I'm just not sure."

In any case, I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved.
 
A lot of it involves things like the silence of the ghetto, left leaning juries and judges, today's victim was yesterday's suspect, etc.
 
Yeah, those factoids by themselves raise far more questions than they answer.
 
So the...

...4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th make the 2nd exponentially more important, don't they........our country's founders seemed to have been infected thoroughly with common sense...
 
My experience with Philadelphia leads me to believe it is a LE problem. I lived in North East Philadelphia for two years, worst police department in the world. My house was broken into on two occasions, and both times I reported it to the local PD I was told that they would not send an investigator or a police officer and I was given a case number to report my loss to my insurance company. When my job contract was up I returned to Florida.
 
I'm sure the figures are very misleading and more likely the cases were pleaded down to lesser offenses versus actually letting the people go free.
 
But how many of those 100 quilty men will go on to murder and rape etc? Yes, we don't want the innocent incarcerated or executed but we should not be setting any quilty people free either.
 
What about the hundred innocent men every free guilty man will victimize? Don't they have rights?
But how many of those 100 quilty men will go on to murder and rape etc? Yes, we don't want the innocent incarcerated or executed but we should not be setting any quilty people free either.

Who said they were guilty? The stats say that these are individuals who were charged and then freed.
 
In many other nation in the world you will find it easier to accuse and convict a person than under a system with the types of rights and protections intended by the founders of the United States of America.

And yet, we have the highest rate of incarceration. If rapists and murderers go free, it's because we clog up the justice system and imprison too many people who AREN'T rapists and murderers, methinks.

Who said they were guilty? The stats say that these are individuals who were charged and then freed.

Exactly. In case you haven't heard, some LE agencies, and especially some DAs, are a bit overzealous in arresting and charging people.
 
I don't know how it is in Pa but here in Wa and Or it is common for the LE to charge or more correctly recommend charging with everything under the sun and letting the lawyers and DA fight about it. Many charges are dropped or pleaded down to lesser charges due to this fact. Also in Oregon they have measure 11 crimes which mandate harsh felony penalties. It gives the DA the leverage to allow a plead on lesser charges not necessarily because a person is guilty but because if he or she loses on the greater charge which they are not guilty of it means many years in prison. FRJ
 
Also in Oregon they have measure 11 crimes which mandate harsh felony penalties. It gives the DA the leverage to allow a plead on lesser charges not necessarly because a person is guilty but because if he or she loses on the greater charge which they are not guilty of it means many years in prison.

Of course, this means that the whole point of these laws is to play around with people's lives, not actually to punish wrongdoers appropriately.

If someone is an armed robber, and he's caught, he should be tried as an armed robber, not offered a deal where he pleads guilty to public urination instead. If someone isn't really a danger to society (i.e. hasn't committed a crime involving real non-consensual victims), then he shouldn't be tried for anything at all.

In a justice system where resources aren't tied up with malum prohibitum defendants, we could try and convict armed robbers, and leave people alone if they haven't hurt anyone (or legitimately tried to hurt someone).
 
Let us put these statements into perspective for this particular situation:


Only one in 10 people charged with gun assaults is convicted of that charge, the newspaper found.
So in a very anti-gun city, where even legally carrying citizens or those who pull out a firearm in self defense are likely to be initially charged for assault with a firearm the conviction rate is low?

If you defend yourself, especially if you stop a crime from even happening by pulling a firearm in public, in anti places you will likely be charged with felony assault. It may get dropped as soon as it is reviewed by the DA, or in trial many times (and result in conviction other times), but it is likely to be initially charged.

Sure some of those with the charges really are criminals, but it does not say they are released, just that they are not convicted of that specific charge. Often times when evidence is lacking, or the potential of losing the case is great they attempt to reach a plea.
The plea assures a conviction, without any of the costs of a trial. In fact the way some cities pad the conviction rates is by only charging and pursuing absolutely certain convictions, so they can cite some really high conviction rate. So it actually sounds like they are really quick to level many charges on people in Philadelphia.
A low conviction rate is often the result of a DA or LEO charging for every crime under the sun almost every single time! So quite the opposite of only convicting a smaller number of certain cases, they are charging so many people with so many crimes that a large number of the charges are dropped or unfounded. So for example they charge someone with 20 crimes when arrested, but 15 are bogus and excessive. That means even if they convict on 4 of the 5 real ones, they have only a 20% conviction rate overall. While if they only charged for the 5 initially they would have an 80% conviction rate.



Only two in 10 accused armed robbers are found guilty of armed robbery.
So accused? Not even charged? If I went out and accused 10,000 people today, all of whom are not found to really be guilty or even charged, does that mean the local prosecutor just failed 10,000 times?

Certainly armed robbers should be punished, but only when the evidence is there. Freedom and protections require some sacrifices.
I imagine you have heard the saying "freedom isn't free" when describing the sacrifice members of the armed forces make. Well it isn't free at home either, and sometimes more dangerous people get back out on the streets by upholding protections that will hopefully keep you out of prison if wrongly accused.
Sure beats China where almost anyone arrested is found guilty and sent to prison or executed for the accused crime.
Of course the 2nd helps to enable you and loved ones to be a little more responsible for your own destiny (where not infringed by local laws to the contrary).
It is not perfect, but freedom never will be, and it certainly is the best thing out there.


Only one in four accused rapists is found guilty of rape.
Once again the term used is "accusations". A significant number of rape accusations are false. Over 25% of those cases actually taken to trial with DNA to actually compare and referred to the FBI found the accused was not guilty, with an even higher number of inconclusive results.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194032,00.html
While many more not part of that statistic never even make it to court when charges are dropped or never even filed because the accuser recants their story. Which happens in many false accusations under heavy questioning.
So the percentage of total accusations which are false could easily be over 35% and up to almost half of all accusations based on various studies.

Some claim rape out of anger over unrelated things, while many others claim rape after committing an embarrassing consensual activity or being caught in an affair.
Certainly when rape is real it is a significant danger and predators need to be stopped. But a significant portion of initial accusations are false.
So a balance must be met.

Even if almost half of accusations were false, assuming the highest rate of false accusations there would still be over half of the real rapists not being found guilty of rape if only 1 in 4 result in conviction. (A statistic that would also include consensual sex when illegal based on age of one of the individuals.)
That is certainly troublesome, but once again sacrifices are made for freedom, including letting more guilty go free (or be found guilty of another offense) to keep the innocent found guilty low.
The best solution in a free society is once again to empower your loved ones to be more active in providing for their own self-defense.
It will not always work, but freedom beats the alternative.
 
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One thing I do know is I was in a criminalistics class at Temple University back in 1978. I was the only civilian in the the class . There rest were Philadelphia police officers. I'll just say.....I'm glad I was never a resident of Philadelphia.
 
I was held up in 1980. The 2 jokers got caught. The law was 5 years mandatory for armed robbery in Phila.
One guy confessed and got 10 years probation. The other NOT GUILTY by Jury
Go Phila Go. Pass a few more gun laws.

Also a great place to steal car. The bandit goes to court for auto theft and gets a slap......he leaves court...steals a car to get home.
 
Legal Question?

You know, I can't discern an actual legal issue under discussion here.

Tell you what, I'm gonna go ahead and close this, and if someone has a compelling reason to reopen it, please send me a PM and let me know what I've missed.

 
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