I got everything all set up (except PPM) finally after finishing my bench, looks good to me and I'll post some pics later. Anyway, moving along, everything was going great.. tumbling, resizing/depriming, repriming etc. Loved neck sizing only the 7mm-08's from my new rifle, so VERY easy! Got to throwing my 1st charge by hand just to take things nice and slow. Well, this confounded Lee scale is driving me nuts! I fought for 15 minutes and FINALLY get it zeroed, move the bearing to the 40 mark, rear grain slide to 6, take me the dipper (mostly full of H414) that came with the 7mm-08 dies and gently pour the powder into the pan. No movement.. add a touch more using the powder trickler, finally got it to move and then after a few more twists it settled at the balance mark. Removed pan, funneled it into case and low and behold, filled it to the rim! Returned bearing & slide to zero marks and scale has to be re-zeroed.. again! Been doing this for over an hour now and frankly, I'm about 2 tries away from screaming Digital Scale! Which means I'd be dead in the water for 2 + weeks while I recover from this start-up expense before I can order anything else. I do have this thing where the charge is a bit more normal looking, i.e. case is 3/4 full, but my bloody confidence is totally shot in it now since it won't hold zero for 2 minutes. So what am I doing wrong? Is it just me being overly nervous and this is normal or is it the scale or even the alignment of the planets? The instructions don't really cover scale set-up well at all or between the 2 manuals I have. Any advice would be nice and please remember: newbie, kid gloves please.
So what am I doing wrong?
- Thread starter Texas_XD
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koja48
member
I have a Lyman digital . . . keypad went TU on the first one after the warranty expired, Lyman repaired it for free . . . they stood close behind their product. I still use it, but now that I have a Herrell's Precision Powder Measure (Benchrest model), that's pretty much all I use . . . EXTREMELY accurate. Gonna buy their handgun model next.
Sounds like you might have a burr affecting the balance beam. Does the scale respond consistently as you trickle?
Sounds like you might have a burr affecting the balance beam. Does the scale respond consistently as you trickle?
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DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
A digital scale isn't the only solution. There are other, much less expensive alternative that'll do fine you probably can afford now if you're finding the Lee scale is too touchy. One of the problems you're having is you had your scale zeroed, but had no way to check the accuracy of the measurement.
I would suggest something like the RCBS 505 or Hornady Scales. They're only about 50 bucks or so and get yourself a set of calibration check weights (RCBS offers a nice set. RCBS #98992.) for any scale you buy, regardless of the type. That way, you know your scale is calibrated and you can be confident in the measurement.
Finally, I'm not familiar with that powder, but it may very well be you've made a mistake in selecting charge or had the page in the book flip on your to another, larger cartridge. A smart thing to do for safety's sake would be to go back and investigate the powder weight you've selected in your manuals and make sure it's the right weight for the cartridge you're loading for.
If that's the case, you wouldn't be the first guy that was loading for one cartridge, opened the book to the cartridge he wanted, was disctracted for a moment and had the page flip on him to a larger cartridge without him noticing. It's happened to folks, could have happened to you. Not saying it did, just saying for safety's sake, double check everything.
Hope this helps,
Dave
I would suggest something like the RCBS 505 or Hornady Scales. They're only about 50 bucks or so and get yourself a set of calibration check weights (RCBS offers a nice set. RCBS #98992.) for any scale you buy, regardless of the type. That way, you know your scale is calibrated and you can be confident in the measurement.
Finally, I'm not familiar with that powder, but it may very well be you've made a mistake in selecting charge or had the page in the book flip on your to another, larger cartridge. A smart thing to do for safety's sake would be to go back and investigate the powder weight you've selected in your manuals and make sure it's the right weight for the cartridge you're loading for.
If that's the case, you wouldn't be the first guy that was loading for one cartridge, opened the book to the cartridge he wanted, was disctracted for a moment and had the page flip on him to a larger cartridge without him noticing. It's happened to folks, could have happened to you. Not saying it did, just saying for safety's sake, double check everything.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Things like static can cause the scale to be inaccurite. try removing everything from the bench and zero the scale. Then place things back one at a time and see if the scale looses zero. If it does then what you just put back is causeing the problem. styrofoam and plastic are the worst. give it a try.
dleong
Member
Don't know if this will help, but take a close look at the magnetic damper on the left of the base and verify there are no metal filings or shavings stuck to it that might interfere (i.e., contact) the metal plate on the arm.
I had that happen to me once, a long time ago. The Lee scale would not zero consistently, and the problem turned out to be a tiny piece of metal shaving stuck to the damper that was rubbing against the plate.
I had that happen to me once, a long time ago. The Lee scale would not zero consistently, and the problem turned out to be a tiny piece of metal shaving stuck to the damper that was rubbing against the plate.
NailGun
Member
Texas_XD, I had a similar problem with Lee's "Perfect" scale. I solved the problem by buying a Redding scale. RCBS, Lyman, Dillon, Hornady...all make good scales, I just preferred the Redding.
Interestingly enough, when I set both scales up, level em out, and use check weights to verify accuracy, both are accurate.
The problem I had/have with the Lee scale is that when I trickle powder into the pan, the scale may not move freely, and it is common to trickle in .1 to .2 gr. over before the scale moves. The Redding moves very freely, and seems to react to each ball/flake/stick trickled into the pan. Never a problem.
Good luck, hope this helps. NailGun.
Interestingly enough, when I set both scales up, level em out, and use check weights to verify accuracy, both are accurate.
The problem I had/have with the Lee scale is that when I trickle powder into the pan, the scale may not move freely, and it is common to trickle in .1 to .2 gr. over before the scale moves. The Redding moves very freely, and seems to react to each ball/flake/stick trickled into the pan. Never a problem.
No. Stay alert, stay alive. If you think something is wrong, it probably is. Remember, We Are Here For You!
Good luck, hope this helps. NailGun.
SSN Vet
Member
take a bubble level and make sure the scale is on a leve surface.
moving any beam scale around, even slightly, on an unlevel surface will throw things off.
I like my little Lee scale so far....especially for the money.
How far off zero are you talking?
I trickle untill the pan comes up.....stop......and if it settles with in an 1/8" of the center mark, I call it good.
Only way to know for sure is to get a weight set to use as a bench mark.
moving any beam scale around, even slightly, on an unlevel surface will throw things off.
I like my little Lee scale so far....especially for the money.
How far off zero are you talking?
I trickle untill the pan comes up.....stop......and if it settles with in an 1/8" of the center mark, I call it good.
Only way to know for sure is to get a weight set to use as a bench mark.
The Bushmaster
Member
Texas XD...CALL LEE!!!:banghead: Oops sorry...Kid gloves...
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philbo
Member
+1 on making sure the surface is level.
I use the lee scale in combination w/a cheap digital scale to check what the Lee autodisk is dropping. Spent less than $20 on the digital new on Ebay. Same one Frankford Arsenal sells $45, just not the same name.
I use the lee scale in combination w/a cheap digital scale to check what the Lee autodisk is dropping. Spent less than $20 on the digital new on Ebay. Same one Frankford Arsenal sells $45, just not the same name.
philbo,
It sounds like your scale has an issue. The scale is one item you don't skimp on, your life and limbs depend upon it accuracy. I use a digital Cabela's scale but my go to scale is a RCBS 10-10 which I have had for 27 yr. The 10-10 was originally manufactured by Ohaus. I also recommend the old RCBS 5-10 scale which was also originally manufactured by Ohaus but are not longer manufactured, however, you can find them on eBay for between $30 to $40. I certainly don't like the fine adjust on the new RCBS 5-0-2 or the 5-0-5 scales; they wouldn't be an option for me.
I am sure all the other reloading manufactures including Lee build good scales but I don't have any experience with them. If you do buy something else I strongly recommend get one the higher end scales. It's your life, limbs and firearms that are at stake.
It sounds like your scale has an issue. The scale is one item you don't skimp on, your life and limbs depend upon it accuracy. I use a digital Cabela's scale but my go to scale is a RCBS 10-10 which I have had for 27 yr. The 10-10 was originally manufactured by Ohaus. I also recommend the old RCBS 5-10 scale which was also originally manufactured by Ohaus but are not longer manufactured, however, you can find them on eBay for between $30 to $40. I certainly don't like the fine adjust on the new RCBS 5-0-2 or the 5-0-5 scales; they wouldn't be an option for me.
I am sure all the other reloading manufactures including Lee build good scales but I don't have any experience with them. If you do buy something else I strongly recommend get one the higher end scales. It's your life, limbs and firearms that are at stake.
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
Member
Bushmaster said it... Call LEE.
And that goes for any of us that have an issue with our reloading equipment/components. All of the reloading manufactures have great customer service departments.
Often you'll actually get one of the engineers on the phone, not just a front line person.
That said, for Beam Scales I can't say enough for the RCBS 10-10. I love mine. The 5-10 is OK, but most of those little ones are just too touchy or don't settle soon enough for my taste. -I'm not knocking the LEE scale at all here. But as with many of the 'reloading KITs', there are things all of the reloading manufactures scrimped on to keep prices down for the new reloader.
But, they should work. So call LEE. The previous mentionings about level surface and metal near the scale all apply- To any scale.
I'll even step out on a limb here. When you filled a cartridge with your powder charge, did you tap it a bit to get the powder to settle in the case?
Do you have some scale weights? Or some bullets that you could weigh to check your scale?
-Steve
And that goes for any of us that have an issue with our reloading equipment/components. All of the reloading manufactures have great customer service departments.
Often you'll actually get one of the engineers on the phone, not just a front line person.
That said, for Beam Scales I can't say enough for the RCBS 10-10. I love mine. The 5-10 is OK, but most of those little ones are just too touchy or don't settle soon enough for my taste. -I'm not knocking the LEE scale at all here. But as with many of the 'reloading KITs', there are things all of the reloading manufactures scrimped on to keep prices down for the new reloader.
But, they should work. So call LEE. The previous mentionings about level surface and metal near the scale all apply- To any scale.
I'll even step out on a limb here. When you filled a cartridge with your powder charge, did you tap it a bit to get the powder to settle in the case?
Do you have some scale weights? Or some bullets that you could weigh to check your scale?
-Steve
philbo
Member
uhhh, Idano, my scales are working just fine... it's Texas_XD that may have a problem. 
My scales double and triple check the measure from the Lee Autodisk before and during a reloading session without any problems. My system works, and safety is always first.
My scales double and triple check the measure from the Lee Autodisk before and during a reloading session without any problems. My system works, and safety is always first.sargenv
Member
Also, there is one thing I did not see mentioned here. Sometimes when you use stick powders in cases, they will fill the case more than ball powders since there is more air between each stick. If you slowly trickle the powder in, a little at a time, you will notice that it will settle into the case better than if you just dump the whole thing in. I've noticed this particularly in the 223 rem with IMR 4895. The book TELLS me it can hold 26.5, I put 26.5 and it overflows.. ***? Ok, so I trickle 26.5 into the case and hey, it all fits... Ok, step back, where's that WC846.. a ball powder. hey it all fits in one go at it.. I'll stick to ball powders for this. Might try trickling the powder in, a little at a time from your pan and see if you can fit it all in there. Yes, it's slower, but if you want to use stick powders, sometimes you need to have a little more finesse I too would call Lee and ask about the scale. My first scale was an RCBS 1010. I still have it and use it for the shotshell press and use a Pact digital on the rifle/pistol bench. After looking at it, I'm not sure if 414 is a ball or stick, so this advice may be a moot point.
Vince
Ok, step back, where's that WC846.. a ball powder. hey it all fits in one go at it.. I'll stick to ball powders for this. Might try trickling the powder in, a little at a time from your pan and see if you can fit it all in there. Yes, it's slower, but if you want to use stick powders, sometimes you need to have a little more finesse I too would call Lee and ask about the scale. My first scale was an RCBS 1010. I still have it and use it for the shotshell press and use a Pact digital on the rifle/pistol bench. After looking at it, I'm not sure if 414 is a ball or stick, so this advice may be a moot point.Vince
USSR
Member
Texas_XD,
I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for this, but LEE makes the cheapest loading equipment available. It never ceases to amaze me why guys go cheap and then wonder why it doesn't work. Spend a few dollars more and atleast get middle of the road reloading tools.
Don
I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for this, but LEE makes the cheapest loading equipment available. It never ceases to amaze me why guys go cheap and then wonder why it doesn't work. Spend a few dollars more and atleast get middle of the road reloading tools.
Don
The Bushmaster
Member
L O L (Flame On)...Don...Check the poll "What type of press do you own". You're right though. Lee does manufacture economic (less expensive) equipment. Although I have had no problems with my Lee presses, dies or other tools that are Lee in on my bench. I do have some RCBS equipment too. (Flame Off) L O L
Texas XD Call Lee...
(Flame On)...Don...Check the poll "What type of press do you own". You're right though. Lee does manufacture economic (less expensive) equipment. Although I have had no problems with my Lee presses, dies or other tools that are Lee in on my bench. I do have some RCBS equipment too. (Flame Off) L O L Texas XD Call Lee...
Yeah, calling Lee was plan B. Plan A was maybe it was me and ya'll could help correct it but apparantly, that's a no go. At least I have a good idea going in to the call it's not just me and can avoid being convinced it is.
Oh and to answer a few other suggestions:
1. Bench is level, checked and rechecked.. then checked again.
2. I made sure heater was off to avoid airflow issues.
3. I tripled checked the load data and 45.5 gr is starting for H414 powder under a 139gr jacketed bullet. The weight sticks in my mind as I used it orginally to compute rough est of # of reloads/lb-powder, but looked again anyway.
4. H414 is a ball powder and I did tap the case to make sure something wasn't hung up. I went so far as to q-tip the inside to clean any debris out (media)
5. The scale seems to be off roughly 7-10 gr, hence my issue with lack of confidence.
6. It does not respond consistantly while tickling, then it will suddenly shoot straight up. One time reminded me of a catapult.
I'm going to run through a few other suggestions, i.e. plastic causing static, metal filings, etc. If that doesn't resolve this I'll be making that call and testing their customer service out.
Oh and to answer a few other suggestions:
1. Bench is level, checked and rechecked.. then checked again.
2. I made sure heater was off to avoid airflow issues.
3. I tripled checked the load data and 45.5 gr is starting for H414 powder under a 139gr jacketed bullet. The weight sticks in my mind as I used it orginally to compute rough est of # of reloads/lb-powder, but looked again anyway.
4. H414 is a ball powder and I did tap the case to make sure something wasn't hung up. I went so far as to q-tip the inside to clean any debris out (media)
5. The scale seems to be off roughly 7-10 gr, hence my issue with lack of confidence.
6. It does not respond consistantly while tickling, then it will suddenly shoot straight up. One time reminded me of a catapult.
I'm going to run through a few other suggestions, i.e. plastic causing static, metal filings, etc. If that doesn't resolve this I'll be making that call and testing their customer service out.
Texas_XD,
It does sound like it is hanging up if it is jumping while trickling powder into the pan. Make sure the beam is not dragging anywhere and that the beam pivots are smooth. Once you discover the root problem I would definitely get a set of scale weights and verify that it is accurate and repeatable before I would trust it. Your scale is one thing you want to have 100% confidence in because you are trusting it with your life, limbs and expensive guns.
It does sound like it is hanging up if it is jumping while trickling powder into the pan. Make sure the beam is not dragging anywhere and that the beam pivots are smooth. Once you discover the root problem I would definitely get a set of scale weights and verify that it is accurate and repeatable before I would trust it. Your scale is one thing you want to have 100% confidence in because you are trusting it with your life, limbs and expensive guns.
If you want to quick check the scales accuracy you can weight a 2000 or later penny. The weight of the penny converted to grains is 36.266 grain. Accuracy on a reloading sale, both balance and digitals, is +/- .1 grs so you can see if the scale is off by any significant amount.
Make sure there's no oil or dirt on the beams pivot knife edges or where the beam contacts the scale body.
Make sure there's no oil or dirt on the beams pivot knife edges or where the beam contacts the scale body.
cracked butt
Member
Sometimes Lee comes up with some really innovative and useful stuff where you get more than what you paid for at least in thoughtfull engineering- with other things, you get what you pay for, or less.
Texas-
If you have any on hand, or know of a reloader near you, scrounge up a Sierra Match king bullet and use it to check your scale every time you use it. I've made up a set of check weights using an analytical balance where I work, but have found that a SMK bullet is going to dead on, or at least close enough as far as a reloadign balance goes.
USSR
Member
rem1,
I also use an Ohaus scale, and find it to be accurate and perform well.
Don
I also use an Ohaus scale, and find it to be accurate and perform well.
Don
jr81452
Member
check the pivot joint on the scale
texas,
take a good look at the pivot joint on the scale base and make sure that the factory did a good job fileing it. then take a piece of thin paper and test the razor edge in the beam joint. i bought one of these lee's for my sister last year so she could see if she liked reloading and we had the same problems you are having. after some short work with a triangle file i got it sorted out. if the joint is your problem and you don't have a file (or the file skill) just send it back as they should have made it right in the first place.
texas,
take a good look at the pivot joint on the scale base and make sure that the factory did a good job fileing it. then take a piece of thin paper and test the razor edge in the beam joint. i bought one of these lee's for my sister last year so she could see if she liked reloading and we had the same problems you are having. after some short work with a triangle file i got it sorted out. if the joint is your problem and you don't have a file (or the file skill) just send it back as they should have made it right in the first place.
Tex;
I had the same problem with a Lee scale.
If you look under the scale you will see a spring(long leaf spring) in the Lee it is a plastic spring and they warp and don't assist the beam in approach to weight. A good scale will have a metal approach to weight spring, and you do get what you pay for. I sent my Lee back in less than a week.
I scoop/scale and trickle every load.
Here is my trickler setup
I had the same problem with a Lee scale.
If you look under the scale you will see a spring(long leaf spring) in the Lee it is a plastic spring and they warp and don't assist the beam in approach to weight. A good scale will have a metal approach to weight spring, and you do get what you pay for. I sent my Lee back in less than a week.
I scoop/scale and trickle every load.
Here is my trickler setup
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