So what do you guys think about this .22 rifle chassis??

[Acera]

I saw this on another site and thought it a pretty good idea to get a big rifle feel while shooting/practicing with cheap .22's.

http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32459&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[Uncle Mike]

I got caught up in the aluminum stock rifles sometime back, bought a Volquartsen 22MAG resting in their VX-5000 stock with a fancy fluted barrel and all the bells and whistles!

Yea boy, the talk of the range...but the talk was more along the lines of..."with the money he spent on that thing, it doesn't shoot any better than my $500 rig" or " you should have bought a Porsche, cost the same"....

If the price is doable, then it would be worth it, but I bet it won't be!

 

[halfded]

That could be fun!

Even if the chassis isn't expensive, think of how much money I'll end up putting into new parts!

You guys gotta quit...I can't so you have to.

 

[chicharrones]

Yea boy, the talk of the range...but the talk was more along the lines of..."with the money he spent on that thing, it doesn't shoot any better than my $500 rig" or " you should have bought a Porsche, cost the same"....

That's about what I was thinking, especially with the simpler looking shooter right next to it in this pic.

http://www.primalrights.com/images/PRCS/IMG_3796.JPG

but what the hell, if that is what a person loves to do there are worse things in the world that take our money.

 

[jpwilly]

interesting idea but you can already purchase dedicated uppers for AR-15's or trick out any number of 22lr's with accessories including but not limited to the 10/22. It may be the answer to a question no one is asking.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Thats by far the coolest looking Savage MkII that I have ever seen!!

 

[Maverick223]

I think the new Savage Mk. II TR (or TRR) fills the bill a bit better. Bet it is just as accurate, just as comfortable, lighter weight, and loads cheaper.

 

[rangerruck]

I am going to go ahead and say, useless. for many reasons, but one is, if you need a really stable platform, look at the savage heavy bbl , thumbhole stock version. It is big, thick, and juicy....
Or get a planejane marlin mod 795, and fill the stock with sand, and put on a nice 9 to 13 inch bipod.

 

[CraigC]

While I think the design needs some refining, it's a cool idea. It's basically a Nordic chassis for a boltgun and that particular gem goes for the paltry sum of $160. If you can't see the utility in a chassis system that adapts a very common, affordable and typically very accurate .22LR boltgun to use any aftermarket AR-15 furniture then I won't try to explain.

 

[EdLaver]

Overkill for a .22lr unless you have deep pockets or shoot competitions. If I was going to do that for a rimfire I'd rather it be a .17 HMR.

 

[Acera]

I think most of you are missing the point. This is not a rifle system for carrying around the woods, or popping cans with. After reading on the other site the designer wanted it to be a tactical trainer.

You use this rifle instead of your full size tactical bolt gun to get the feel, heft, ergonomics, etc., everything but the cost of each bullet.

I think that is the specialized purpose.

He is not intending to compete with semi-autos, lightweight, cheapest gun out there, smallest, guns.

 

[Maverick223]

I think most of you are missing the point. This is not a rifle system for carrying around the woods, or popping cans with. After reading on the other site the designer wanted it to be a tactical trainer.

A tactical trainer for your bolt action AR?

 

[dom1104]

I think its a tacticool 22 bolt gun.

Passing it off as a "Trainer" for anything other than a 22 bolt gun, is being deceptive.

 

[EdLaver]

I have to say that the whole craze now a days of ".22lr trainers" for Ar15 and bolt guns is basically a marketing ploy. The only real training you will get is to use the actual firearm, set-up, and caliber you want to train with. I do have a Sig 522 .22lr but it ain't for training for the .223. I got it as I am sure most of us have: For ammo costs and fun, maybe a little light hunting/varmit clearing too.

I mean, thats looks like a heck of a "trainer" rifle to me. Probably $1600-$2000. I rather build a centerfire and use the rest on the intended caliber for ammo to train. As I said originally, its nice if you have deep pockets to afford something like that...to each his own.

 

[CraigC]

Hmmm, you can either buy one of only about three or four different stocks available for the Savage rimfires you can buy this chassis system and use any combination of AR stocks, grips and forends you wish. I can't figure it out but it seems that a lot of shooters just look at this stuff the wrong way and if I hear "mall ninja" one more time I'm gonna barf.

The only real training you will get is to use the actual firearm

Trigger time is trigger time and time spent familiarizing yourself with a rimfire that has the identical controls and ergonomics IS 100% helpful. I would not be as proficient with the 1911 as I am without my Ciener conversion.

 

[dom1104]

I have to say that the whole craze now a days of ".22lr trainers" for Ar15 and bolt guns is basically a marketing ploy. The only real training you will get is to use the actual firearm, set-up, and caliber you want to train with. I do have a Sig 522 .22lr but it ain't for training for the .223. I got it as I am sure most of us have: For ammo costs and fun, maybe a little light hunting/varmit clearing too./QUOTE]

I fully 100% disagree with you there Ed.

So long as its an actual conversion, like a 22lr AR conversion, to say there is no use to trigger time on your ACTUAL weapon <not a copy of some sort> is not beneficial, my experiances in competition and training lead me to believe the complete opposite.

Buying a gun that "Sorta kinda looks like your gun" I agree is useless.

The same trigger, sights, operation and the same GUN I disagree its very beneficial.

Slapping a 22lr conversion into a ar, putting the 22lr mags into your 5.56 mag carrier, and running a steel course a few dozen times, then doing it with the full power ammo, I can tell you from experiance, your score will benefit.

And you will find out what works, and what doesnt.

Which is... the whole point of training.

My caveat is, it has to be THE SAME GUN. not some look alike, or in this case, a totally diffferent gun with a stock on it.

The same gun. thats where this "Chassis" falls short.

 

[Maverick223]

Buying a gun that "Sorta kinda looks like your gun" I agree is useless.

My caveat is, it has to be THE SAME GUN. not some look alike, or in this case, a totally diffferent gun with a stock on it.

The same gun. thats where this "Chassis" falls short.

I agree, and that is why I don't feel this is a useful "trainer", unless you are trying to train with your .50BMG upper, and it still falls short because of the differing controls. If you want to train for your AR, a upper, conversion, or similar platform (like the various AR-22s) is the best option. If you want to train for a bolt gun, then a similar platform would again be the best trainer. Something like the new Savage Mk. II (or 93R17) TR/TRR gets pretty close to this, if you are shooting something will a McMillan-ish stock on your LR rig.

 

[Orkan]

Hello Gentlemen.

First, I'd like to thank you for your feedback thus far. I registered today so I could have an open dialogue with the users here.

I'd like to clarify a point of contention as it regards to the PRCS being a "trainer." I shoot a lot of 308, and my favorite platform for doing so is an AICS/AI chassis and rifles. I have quite a few friends that also like the platform, but cannot always shoot as much as they like due to financial restraints.

I agree with what has been stated 100%, in that nothing can substitute for trigger time with the actual rifle you are wanting to be proficient in. I will not argue that point. However, when that opportunity does not exist for whatever reason, it is nice to have an alternative that will provide at least "some" of that experience. This is what the PRCS is designed to do.

Weight:
The PRCS as pictured weighs just over 10lbs. My AICS with MTU contour 308 barrel, suppressor, and optic weighs in at 16lbs. This is by far and above the heaviest 22LR that I've ever handled. When we get the 20moa sloped scope base finished, and add a set of badger rings and a vortex razor 5-20x scope... it will weigh even more.

Handling:
This was of paramount concern. I wanted the rifle to handle very similarly to the 308's that I'm used to shooting. It does this quite well. The weight and balance of the rifle can be changed to suit the individual users preference by using different ar15 components.

Operation:
The Savage mark II has the safety selector, trigger, and bolt in a very similar position to the remington 700's that most of us are quite familiar with. The transition was seamless for anyone that I had running the rifle.

Now, be all of the above true and accurate, but the primary reason that the PRCS is such a good trainer is that it allows new shooters to get thousands of rounds down range with the handling characteristics of a big rifle. Secondly, it is extremely easy for the shooter as well as the instructor to diagnose the shooters form or mistakes. The complete lack of recoil impulse combined with the plethora of components available for the ar15 ensures that the rifle can be set up to fit anyone, and there is absolutely no excuse if the round doesn't impact the target.

Even shooting at 25yds, every shooter that has fired the PRCS has said they were able to see their mistakes more easily than with any other rifle they have shot. I think this is mostly due to lack of noise and recoil. Its a very fun and relaxing shooting experience.

Putting aside all of the above, as mentioned, it is still just one more stock offering for the Mark II rifle that didn't exist before. The major complaint with the standard tupperware-stock mark II is that it is nearly impossible to get an appropriate cheek weld. If nothing else, this solves that problem quite well.

The PRCS can be configured with a $40 stock, $10 grip, and $75 tube-style hand guard. Or you can go all out with magpul hardware and a quad rail of your choosing. I truly wanted everyone to be able to set it up however they wanted.

I look forward to hearing more of your feedback!

Thanks,

-Greg Dykstra
Primal Rights, Inc.

 

[Maverick223]

Welcome to THR, Greg. While I don't believe the chassis suits me well, and I can't see it as a effective trainer (at least for me), I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

 

[Orkan]

Thanks maverick. I knew this chassis wouldn't be for everyone.

You'd be surprised how many of my own friends didn't want one, until they shot it a few times.

 

[gunnie]

i like the basic concept, runs along with my thinking on many 22lrs "cloned" to fit training on other "big brother" weapons, and practice cheaply.

ANY motor skills honing can translate into better shooting of other platforms. more so when closer to physically being the same thing.

but if one wants AR training, 22lr upper kits are available, as well as dedicated iron like the S&W 15-22. if one wants rifle heft from a 22lr, CZ, kimber and others make/made full size/weight iron for what will surely be les$ than your billet conversion.

the rem 540X or 540XR are still very reasonably priced, very accurate 22 target rifles that feel like big brother. while not full match grade, it is a trainer project. the 540XR also has a three way adj stock, and has enough wood below the action and forward to carve down to the contour of most any platform one wants to duplicate.

perhaps investing in an AIC clone stock injection mold, and CNC machining them to fit any existing 22lr platform the customer wanted may meet your parameters more ideally?

$0.02

gunnie

 

[Orkan]

Gunnie, I can definitely do a AICS clone injection mold, however, I would need at least a couple thousand sold to make the investment worth it. The offering price would be considerably higher as well. The PRCS was designed to be brought to the market at an affordable price range, and at our introductory price of $250 shipped, I think nearly everyone will be able to afford it.

 

[benzy2]

I know I'm a few days late to this topic but I just stumbled across this thread. I honestly think this is a great tool. Even if it isn't 100% the same as the centerfire you can still refine many issues with trigger time. Proper form works the same. Use the same grip, LOP and cheek weld as you have on your centerfire and positioning yourself on the rifle, at least off a bipod becomes relevant. Ranging with the scope is the same, assuming you use the same scope. While the dope itself will be different you can still get comfortable running dope through the scope.

I'm not saying its a direct replacement for time on the centerfire rig, just that it does have some usefulness. For a guy on a budget who wants to play the tactical games, 550 rounds for $15 used well can be a lot more beneficial than 15 rounds for $15. If money isn't much of a concern by all means go shoot the real deal. If money is tight it doesn't take long to pay for the system.

Even if this system doesn't equate to the centerfire world, with the emergence of tactical rimfire events at many local ranges I don't see how it doesn't at the least fit in to that scene well. I know a lot of guys with a few spare AR stocks, grips, and handguards that would have a fun .22lr to take to those events with minimal extra invested. Even if you take an A2 stock, the cheapest float tube out there, and a standard grip you would be out the door pretty cheap or at least still well within the custom 10-22 price range. Certainly in the $600 ball park including the price of a new rifle. While the TR does offer a good replication of a McMillan stock this is certainly a cool alternative for those looking for something different.

 

[Orkan]

Thank you for the input benzy. I think you captured the spirit of this project nicely.

Got a rail made up and mounted. I measured wrong, so its a little short. Had to change the handguard to get scope clearance. Mounted a vortex razor 5-20 on there and put a few hundred rounds down range from 50-300yds. Probably about as much fun as you can have with clothes on.

CCI standard velocity.
50yd - 0.0 mils
100yd - 2.0 mils
300yd - 14.7 mils









For extra points, can anyone tell me how far away this deer is?

 

[benzy2]

I think as a unit it looks much better with the rail. It looks more complete this way. Let us know when completed units are for sale. A quick question on the rail. Does it slide on the dovetail or does it screw onto the receiver? I know some of the mkII receivers came with scope bases and others come with dovetails and wasn't sure which this works with or if it works with both.