So - who won???

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absolut_beethoven

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I guess the competition to see which rifle is going to be selected as the replacement for the M16/M4 should be finished by now, so which one won the competition? The HK 416 or the FN SCAR? I won't mention HK's other entry, you know, the one that melts :eek:

If it's not over yet, does anybody have some info on how it's going?

Thanks in advance for any info.
 
I am in a good position to see things that the military is using. I have seen allot of stuff shipped to the front I have seen and know for a fact that there are small units mostly spec war trying h&k 416 and g36 different caliber m4/16 variants, different caliber ak's and even old m14 and fal variants but the bottom line is to refit the armed forces in the middle of an active war will cost too much and there is a current push for the theory of if its not broken then don’t fix it, at least until the war is over/calmed down allot more than it is now.
 
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"Leaky Roof" Process

Can't fix it while it is raining. Doesn't need fixing when it isn't raining.

Bruce
 
Jeremy2171 and Eric_F, I'm not talking about what is or isn't needed, I'm talking about a test between different rifles that is already underway.

Why? Because while some feel that the M16/M4 are adequate for the job, others feel that if the US (meaning YOUR tax dollars) is going to be spending a few hundred million more dollars - Colt being the main beneficiary of said contract - then the men in the field should get the BEST rifle for the job and not one that is merely adequate. See the link below in case you missed this story...

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/10/army_carbinetest_071015w/
 
I am in a good position to see things that the military is using.
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Just out of curiousity, what position is that?

I have seen alot of stuff shipped to the front I have seen and know for a fact that there are small units mostly spec war trying h&k 416 and g36 diffrent calibure m4/16 varriants, diffrent calibure ak's and even old m14 and fal varriants
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While not a secret squirrel, I am assigned to a USASOC unit and have yet to see any G36s in the hands of US troops aside from a couple used for fam fire purposes.

Haven't seen any FALs yet either (again except for fam fire weapons), though I did see an article in one of the gun rags saying DSA had sold some of their OSW short barrel carbines to the AMU.

M14s and HK 416s aren't exactly new news.

Why? Because while some feel that the M16/M4 are adequate for the job, others feel that if the US (meaning YOUR tax dollars) is going to be spending a few hundred million more dollars - Colt being the main beneficiary of said contract - then the men in the field should get the BEST rifle for the job and not one that is merely adequate. See the link below in case you missed this story...
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Ah, the Army Times. I think back when I was a kid it was a kind of reputable branch of the media. Ever since USA Today bought it and the other service newspapers, it's been steadily going tabloid. And it seems to be at least partially funded by HK, given its Heckler und Kock Infomercial articles recently.

As for what rifle or carbine to buy -- the M4 is the type standardized weapon. Saying we should buy something else because some hack newspaper guy with a bunch of new Deutschmarks in his pocket says it's better would be kind of like had we announced in late 1943 we were going to buy more M1 Garands and someone whining that we weren't openly bidding on a replacement.

Now, I think they should avoid sole-sourcing contracts to Colt (FN seems to do a fine job with the M4s) but we don't need a new rifle.
 
HorseSoldier, waiting patiently for your input.

Didn't you mention a while ago that you'd probably get a chance to try out both the HK416 and the FN-SCAR? Is so, please give us your opinion - thanks.
 
I've posted information on the HK 416s in a couple of threads. Summary -- bit heavier than an M4A1, and embarassingly sloppy in the accuracy department (4 MOA, maybe a little looser, with green tip). Much less to get excited about than the official Army Times party line would lead you to believe.

I'm still waiting to get my hands on a SCAR (our current timeline for getting them where I'm at is the second time they've pushed the date back). I'll hopefully be kicking out an illustrated range report on them as soon as they show up and we can get them to the range.
 
Hey look I don’t bs folks. I don’t like talking about where I work or what I do it’s not a secret position or anything. The stuff I look at while at work can be seen by most folks that work here if it were a big secret or something it would be going on here believe me. The fal rifles I saw were definatly sitting around for a while and the g36 might be new but I don’t know. They were in the warehouse getting packed up to go over there some where.
 
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Eric F wrote:

alot, calibure, varriants, diffrent, atleast, beleive, wearhouse....

I won't even go into punctuation.

Your inability to spell and write cohesively really hurts any credibility you might have. Answering "I prefer not to say" when asked about your job that apparantly isn't a big deal anyway also hurts.

It doesn't take much to type correctly. It also makes it a lot easier for people to read what you are trying to say, whether it's true or not.

As for being on-topic: Weapons testing gets a lot of hype because people are interested to see the next generation designs and whatnot, but it doesn't matter how good it is if it's too expensive or difficult to switch weapons. Our current M-16's and M-4's have to go somewhere, and for now they're staying in the hands of our troops.

I often wonder how serious these trials are anyway.
 
I heard they are seriously considering buying just the AR piston uppers and using existing lowers. (hearsay)
I think they will drag their feet on this on. Just hope they don't pull any BS they they did with the dragon skin armor. I don't think they got their fair day in court.
I prefer not to say.
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Mall Ninja +1
 
Frankly, I wasn't even aware that an official test was occuring at the moment; then again, college keeps me from hanging around THR as much as I'd like. Is there any background to this, or is it solely one of those "Army Times" things, as have become so common nowadays?

As to Eric F:
You should realize that, if it's no big deal to reveal the information you did (should it be fact and reality-based), then it should be no big deal to reveal your position, either. We're not asking for your SSN, birthdate, street address, and credit-card number, we're essentially asking you what you do for a living that allows you to get privy to such information. Me? I work in the hunting department of a sporting goods store, and relay information if it's relevant to the topic at hand--and if someone/a couple people want to know where I work, it's polite to tell them. Are there times I'd rather not say, because people believe that, just because I'm a "gun counter monkey," I obviously don't know squat? Sure. If asked about the source of information I reveal, is it polite to answer the question? Absolutely. If someone asks the address of where I work, my name, SSN, etc, do I tell them? Hell no. We're not asking you for the latter, only for the former. Secrecy doesn't get you far on internet gun boards--if it was really a vital issue, you probably couldn't reveal such information without it being fine to reveal your position as well.
 
Big Army will stay with the M4 (rapidly replacing most other 20" variants).

The HK 416s are fielded in miniscule numbers for certain folks.

SCAR is the "winner" for US SOF. I am actively involved in planning my unit's trainup with SCAR (which we will receive later this winter).

We are rolling into year SEVEN of GWOT combat with the M4A1 (not counting earlier use in Somalia and a few other places). I was in 'Stan 2002. I recently returned from Iraq. My guys critique, fondle, and test (to failure) just about every imaginable widget and piece of equipment they are issued or privately purchase. I don't hear anyone seriously complaining about the M4A. It works just fine.

I wouldn't willingly carry a G36 (or an FAL) over an M4A1.

In any event, we will beta test SCAR against live targets next year.

Everything Horse Soldier said...+1

YMMV.
 
Thanks for the input HorseSoldier. I'm looking forward to your report on the FN. I gotta say I'm disappointed in what you say about the accuracy of the HK, because it hasn't been mentioned in either of the fluff pieces on Future Weapons and Army Times.
 
Thanks for commenting Chindo18Z - and please don't forget to give us your input once you get a chance to put the FN through its paces.

By the way, I assume that the early production runs will be made in Belgium until they can ramp up production over here.
 
Hey, Chindo--thanks for keeping us updated and continuing to do so, but stay safe, man.

Though, at some point, I'd be interested to get a "general list" of what widgets your guys think is worth the money, and what they think is crap, etc., assuming you wouldn't mind PMing such info or whatnot.
 
We're not asking for your SSN, birthdate, street address, and credit-card number, we're essentially asking you what you do for a living that allows you to get privy to such information
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Mall Ninja +1
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I won't even go into punctuation.

Your inability to spell and write cohesively really hurts any credibility you might have. Answering "I prefer not to say" when asked about your job that apparantly isn't a big deal anyway also hurts.
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\

Well ok Guys for the first two you are right. Like I said though I do not like to tell/talk about what I do because of several reasons to which I will keep to my self :fire:. However, I am a federal firefighter I am on light duty for the time being so I get to go out and do building inspections. There is a new building we inspect every day for the installation of the new sprinkler system. More or les a Q&A inspection to check the days work. This building is a warehouse for weapons getting shipped out. It is a spec war building:D on the base I work at. This should satisfy the doubt some folks have:neener:.

As far as the last quote all I can say is oops. I was trying to do some work yesterday and get on the forum at the same time and was too rushed to hit spell check:confused:. Which I just now found out does not work as I need to download some thing from the internet which is so conviently blocked from the IT security guys here on base:fire: . So Deal with it until I can go home and edit this stuff :cuss:
 
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well, that makes a lot of sense. Certainly a contingent which I didn't allow for. However, does the possibility exist that not all of those weapons are going to the troops, but rather just "elsewhere" that is out of the country?

And, seen any SCARs? :D
 
No I hang out with some of these guys they are going to troops in limited numbers As far as the SCAR I might have seen some but mistaken them for fal varriants or somthing like that I can ask though if I find out I will post later today
 
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