So why are O/U guns more expensive than autos?
- Thread starter Gunsmoker
- Start date
- Status
sm
member
Craftsmanship.
evbutler462
Member
Engineering. Precision. Barrel regulation.
A good quality O/U requires the above. A lot of hand fitting. Labor does not come cheap.
Semis are modular and can be high volume. Assembly line operations. No hand fitting. Barrels, trigger assemblies, and parts are interchangeable.
O/U's are individuals and quality O/U's are treated as such by the finer makers. Tremendous labor involved in fine O/U's.
A good quality O/U requires the above. A lot of hand fitting. Labor does not come cheap.
Semis are modular and can be high volume. Assembly line operations. No hand fitting. Barrels, trigger assemblies, and parts are interchangeable.
O/U's are individuals and quality O/U's are treated as such by the finer makers. Tremendous labor involved in fine O/U's.
Titan6
member
Aaehm... If you have to ask how much....
redneck2
Member
Twice as many barrels
Twice as many firing mechanisms
Twice as many firing mechanisms
Gunsmoker,
Remington imports a line of Russian made O/U guns (called Spartan) which are supposedly very durable and reliable. I've handled them in a local store and although they are heavy and bulky, they look pretty good. They are available in the $400-500 range. Also, some folks at a local range have Stoeger shotguns and they seem to like them. I don't think they are too expensive either. A couple of folks there also have some Chinese made O/U's. I shot skeet with a fellow who bought one and he did fine and liked his gun a lot. His only complaint was that it had fixed chokes, but he only used it for Skeet so it didn't matter much.
Remington imports a line of Russian made O/U guns (called Spartan) which are supposedly very durable and reliable. I've handled them in a local store and although they are heavy and bulky, they look pretty good. They are available in the $400-500 range. Also, some folks at a local range have Stoeger shotguns and they seem to like them. I don't think they are too expensive either. A couple of folks there also have some Chinese made O/U's. I shot skeet with a fellow who bought one and he did fine and liked his gun a lot. His only complaint was that it had fixed chokes, but he only used it for Skeet so it didn't matter much.
SDC
Member
Mainly because you only have one point of aim, and both barrels have to hit that point of aim; to do that, you have to "regulate" the barrels, which takes a lot of handiwork, which doesn't come cheap. This is especially true when you're dealing with two barrels that are choked differently, since it's expected that your second shot (usually the lower barrel, with a tighter choke) is going to be taken at a target that's further away than when you fired your first shot.
Take apart an 1100, then take apart a decent O/U. Look closely at the machining, the precision, etc. An auto can be made with much cheaper machining, with a lot greater tolerances, etc. All modern ones are modular, designed from the ground up to be built efficiently in a modern factory. The trigger group generally contains most of the moving parts, and it's built on an assembly line and pinned into the receiver as a unit. Makes it easier to clean, so I'm not complaining, but it's a lot cheaper to make, too.
An O/U is still designed and built much as it was 100 years ago. The cheap ones are just made sloppily, of inferior metal, in countries with the cheapest labor.
(Note that the more expensive pump guns like the Model 12, Model 31, etc. are no longer made. They're really wonderful, and expensive, too. Relics from another era, they're not designed to be mass-produced cheaply, like a modern 870, 500, Nova, etc.)
I like my 1100. It has brought home some birds. But it's easy to see why it's cheaper to make than the O/U sitting next to it, when you take them both apart and look closely.
An O/U is still designed and built much as it was 100 years ago. The cheap ones are just made sloppily, of inferior metal, in countries with the cheapest labor.
(Note that the more expensive pump guns like the Model 12, Model 31, etc. are no longer made. They're really wonderful, and expensive, too. Relics from another era, they're not designed to be mass-produced cheaply, like a modern 870, 500, Nova, etc.)
I like my 1100. It has brought home some birds. But it's easy to see why it's cheaper to make than the O/U sitting next to it, when you take them both apart and look closely.
Taurus44
Member
The Stoeger double-guns are nice, especially for the price. Their "Condor" model is available in .410, 20ga, 16ga and 12ga with a variety of barrel lengths, screw-in choke tubes, etc, etc... All for an MSRP of $350 (so you KNOW you can get it a lot cheaper). You can even get a selective trigger if you step up to the "Condor Supreme" (MSRP $599).
If you're really feeling frisky, you can step-up to the "Condor Competition" model which adds adjustable comb, palm swell and ported barrels... All for an MSRP of $629! I've seen these available in the $500-575 range.
None of them will be a $2000 Ruger, but they are FAR from being "junk" as some shotgun snobs will have you believe.
If you're really feeling frisky, you can step-up to the "Condor Competition" model which adds adjustable comb, palm swell and ported barrels... All for an MSRP of $629! I've seen these available in the $500-575 range.
None of them will be a $2000 Ruger, but they are FAR from being "junk" as some shotgun snobs will have you believe.
Some Stoeger guns are pretty rough. That's not snobbery, it's a fact.
That said, they can be pretty reliable, and they're not clunkers like the Russian guns. Some Condors are actually pretty nice, for the money, and they handle better than many.
But Stoegers I've handled lately are very rough, especially internally. That doesn't bode well for longevity.
SKB is my preference. They're a genuine bargain you can keep for a lifetime of shooting, not something you will be glad to be rid of as soon as you get a raise.
That said, they can be pretty reliable, and they're not clunkers like the Russian guns. Some Condors are actually pretty nice, for the money, and they handle better than many.
But Stoegers I've handled lately are very rough, especially internally. That doesn't bode well for longevity.
SKB is my preference. They're a genuine bargain you can keep for a lifetime of shooting, not something you will be glad to be rid of as soon as you get a raise.
Fair warning about the Spartan guns. They had some bad batches come in. We got some of them down here. My friend and his friend both bought one. Both guns would double, or fail to reset the trigger for the next barrel. My friend took his back and traded for another and it had the same problems. Both guys took them back for refund. The dealer said he refused to carry the brand anymore because he had gotten a lot of returns besides theirs.
I don't know if it was just a bad batch and the quality has improved, or if it's a general quality control issue. If you buy one, be sure your dealer will give a refund just in case.
skeeter1
Member
Mine, too. I've got a pair of SKB SxS shotguns, a model 100 (current going price ~$750) and a model 200 (~$1500). The quality, fit, finish, and handling are quite unlike anything you're going to find in a semi-auto shotgun.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54420&d=1173152046
OTOH, they're 30 years old, have been used a lot, and will still be going strong 50 years from now. Manufacturing a fine double is a display of the work of master gunsmiths, and they're worth saving your money to get a quality one.
Zundfolge
Member
In addition to "hand built is expensive", another factor that is being overlooked here is the market.
O/U shotguns are marketed to the upscale trap shooter, whereas semis and pumps are marketed to everyone.
For the most part in a free market capitalist system, prices are set by the buyers. If nobody was interested in paying the higher prices of the O/U guns then they would be cheaper.
Also, less people are interested in O/U shotguns. For every O/U you find in the marketplace I bet you'll find dozens of auto loaders and pump guns (if not hundreds or thousands) so you have a little bit of economies of scale going on here.
O/U shotguns are marketed to the upscale trap shooter, whereas semis and pumps are marketed to everyone.
For the most part in a free market capitalist system, prices are set by the buyers. If nobody was interested in paying the higher prices of the O/U guns then they would be cheaper.
Also, less people are interested in O/U shotguns. For every O/U you find in the marketplace I bet you'll find dozens of auto loaders and pump guns (if not hundreds or thousands) so you have a little bit of economies of scale going on here.
The problem is that, in order to take advantage of economies of scale with an O/U, you'd have to set up a VERY expensive robotic factory that did the work.
So the whole "economies of scale" thing is nonlinear.
Since you can set up an assembly line to build 870s for a lot less, you don't have the same barrier to entry.
In order for there to be truly top-notch O/U guns for cheap, they'd have to sell a LOT of them, maybe more than pumps at present. You have to pay for the robots with your profits. And unless they're available cheap already, the existing market won't be big enough to entice investors.
Classic Catch-22.
So the whole "economies of scale" thing is nonlinear.
Since you can set up an assembly line to build 870s for a lot less, you don't have the same barrier to entry.
In order for there to be truly top-notch O/U guns for cheap, they'd have to sell a LOT of them, maybe more than pumps at present. You have to pay for the robots with your profits. And unless they're available cheap already, the existing market won't be big enough to entice investors.
Classic Catch-22.
Not to mean to try and steal your thread but I saw a O/U at a local gun shop. It had great looking wood...and looked to be in good shape...(I know very little about shor guns and nothing about O/U's)...the brand name on the gun was K mart...They want 249.00 I know they will come down some...is this a good price or not...
Hawk
Member
- Status
