SOCOM BearBuster?

[16n69]

OK...here we go again.:banghead:
There are some guys trying to convince me that for large BEAR DEFENSE...
...EVEN BETTER than a quality semi-auto Benelli M4 H2O SG w/Brenneke slugs or a Marlin 1895SBL 45-70 would be a .458 SOCOM in the AR15/M4 platform...due to speed & weight of shot combined putting a lot of hi-sectional density lead on Mr. Brown real w/ real quick follow up.
That that round in that platform...can make bear burger out of Mr. Brown in the precious few seconds I may have in a charge...

Also, reasoning that this system is "battle proven" for reliability?
I don't know 'bout jungle & desert "RELIABILITY" vs. cold & wet weather reliability???

What say you?

 

[CraigC]

Who exactly is trying to convince you that the AR would be better than the Marlin???

How many threads must you start and how many guns must you buy before we can let this go away??? You've already spent three thousand dollars on the M4 and the 1895, go ahead and get the .458SOCOM.....just to be sure.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Dude. You have an 1895. Buy some Buffalo Bore loads and go have some safe fun.

If your looking for an excuse to tell the wife you want another expensive purchase, well that's on you.


Seriously, there's half a million bear threads on here, and the general consensus seems to be at least .45 caliber either a hard cast bullet or a bonded FMJ bullet.

 

[jeepnik]

They kill elephants, hippos, rhinos, and buffalo with 1895's using buffalo bore and garrett stuff. I think it will more than handle a big bear.

 

[Hocka Louis]

I suppose if you feel a 45 caliber round that was pushed by 70 grains of blackpowder is addequate for a grizzly, and knowing the 458 SOCOM is like a semi-auto .45-70, sure, I guess it IS better in some respects. However, I'd probably use that excellent self-loading Benelli shotgun with 3" plated 000 Buckshot rounds though.

 

[conhntr]

458 soccom is not rea
Ly high sectional density. The common 300gr loadings are the same SD as a 145 gr 308

The 350gr has less SD than a 165gr 30cal....

But it is a big projectile.

Personally i think a flat sided lever action carries the best of the options. I hate pistol grips catch on everything in the woods and limit the ways you can sling the rifle

 

[Redlg155]

wow....bear thread again.

Back to my dream. I was walking through the woods and I saw a beargrizrhinobuff getting ready to attack me. I had a Benelli, Marlin and now an AR. I couldn't decide what to use. So he ate me..again.

 

[Tex4426]

458 socom was developed to be a one shot drop gun for spec ops...that has the ability to be subsonic and easily suppressed with a 500 g bullet...it also fits on standard AR lower and uses standard. 5.56 mags...it is a very deadly weapon especially when suppressed ...as for bear it should be good to 200 yards with 350g bullets..the upper runs about 700 from rra...no I don't own one...yet

 

[Tex4426]

Not to mention the semi auto factor...a 30 round magazine holds about 11 rounds..that's alot of lead u could be slinging in emergency

 

[Flintknapper]

I own a 458 SOCOM and have shot it quite a bit.

MINE is reliable...but I still wouldn't choose to carry it for defense against Brown Bear IF I had a good lever action rifle in a similar cartridge power range (45/70).

Similarly I would not carry an auto-loading shotgun.

A lever action rifle or a pump shotgun...would be my choice, you KNOW those are going to run and frankly... if you haven't turned the bear or ended its attack with 3-4 rounds (on target), it's probably going to be ON YOU....and any "extra" cartridge capacity becomes a moot point.

 

[16n69]

Who exactly is trying to convince you that the AR would be better than the Marlin???

How many threads must you start and how many guns must you buy before we can let this go away??? You've already spent three thousand dollars on the M4 and the 1895, go ahead and get the .458SOCOM.....just to be sure.

What's it to you how many guns I buy and for what...and who says you have to respond to any of my posts or threads...go somewhere else where you can discuss your SD & bullets all day with someone who will listen to you?

 

[16n69]

Not to mention the semi auto factor...a 30 round magazine holds about 11 rounds..that's alot of lead u could be slinging in emergency

and that is what I am thinking, with the little time described by those who have been there and LIVE in AK w/bears, like Kodiakbeer...make the 1st and EVERY following shot count and as many as possible in the shortest time!

 

[16n69]

I own a 458 SOCOM and have shot it quite a bit.

MINE is reliable...but I still wouldn't choose to carry it for defense against Brown Bear IF I had a good lever action rifle in a similar cartridge power range (45/70).

Similarly I would not carry an auto-loading shotgun.

A lever action rifle or a pump shotgun...would be my choice, you KNOW those are going to run and frankly... if you haven't turned the bear or ended its attack with 3-4 rounds (on target), it's probably going to be ON YOU....and any "extra" cartridge capacity becomes a moot point.

hmmm...that lever action may not be as reliable as you think, not if junk gets in the action...no more so than a Benelli M4 H2O. SG will put more rounds out quick than the Marlin, at least at this point, for me.

 

[Tex4426]

Y not a revolver....if the bear is on top of u good luck shooting it with a long gun...it only takes one hand for a revolver and if he is already on top of u prolly the only weapon u can get a shot off with

 

[16n69]

Y not a revolver....if the bear is on top of u good luck shooting it with a long gun...it only takes one hand for a revolver and if he is already on top of u prolly the only weapon u can get a shot off with

sure, ok...but I have been told (and believe, knowing what I know about the ballistics of HG vs. SG & rifle cartridges)...that the HG should be the last ditch effort if you miss with the long gun...or don't have LG close. More energy from SB/rifle and with BIG bears, I am told from those who have been there...I am going to need a lot of knockdown power.

The REASON I want to use a SEMI_AUTO...and I know that a lot of guys who are VERY cool & experienced with ONE type of "pet" action that they may have lived & practiced with for 10's of thousands of rounds, will argue for that "pet rnd. or action"...the REASON is that I have not shot 10's of thousands of rounds thru a lever action, bolt, or pump...I am a semi-auto & revolver HG guy, ( have shot few hundred rounds thru .300 Weatherby bolt action, just for deer...) and I do not trust that in a LIFE THREATINING / BEAR CHARGING situation...which is a VERY real possibility where I am going to be hanging out a lot real soon...I do not have the time-in or confidence YET...to work that pump, lever, bolt without problems...'cause my muscles are freezing from fear...
...NO, rather lead the way, gun pointed ahead & down, ONE in the chamber safety ON...
the less I have to work & do the better...just aim and pull the trigger and get back on target fast as possible (of course after many hrs. & rounds practice w/chosen semi-auto).
I want to have as many CHANCES in the shortest time to put my skill under extreme duress, with ONE fast action and put as much well aimed lead into brownie...
If I had years to get as fast as some with a lever, bolt, pump as some may think they can match a semi-auto (doubt it, really?)...then perhaps I would...
...so it will be either my Benelli M4 H2O U.S. Marine tested & approved reliable weather resistant any ammo firing 7+1 Ssemi-auto SG w/ Brenneke BM slugs or as SOME around me have suggested...the big bore .458 cal. SOCOM using the AR15/M4 platform for Hi-SD heavy bullets delivered quick from a battle proven semi-auto.

Regardless, I will have my son & his brother-in-law carrying whatever weapon they are best with to back me, so no worries really...I HAVE listened to the wisdom of those who say "AVOIDANCE" is the BEST defense.

 

[tarosean]

Regardless, I will have my son & his brother-in-law carrying whatever weapon they are best with to back me, so no worries really.

One of the last bear stories to grace this forum ended with an expired hunter who died from GSW from a buddy, instead of the bear that attacked.

All this talk of weapons, etc. isnt going to do you a damn bit of good if you lack the training to stand your ground and have your wits about you in a time of crisis

 

[JShirley]

I don't know how reliable the M4 will be in the cold and wet, but if you're satisfied it's reliable, a good 12 gauge slug is effective bear medicine at defensive range.

John

 

[16n69]

One of the last bear stories to grace this forum ended with an expired hunter who died from GSW from a buddy, instead of the bear that attacked.

All this talk of weapons, etc. isnt going to do you a damn bit of good if you lack the training to stand your ground and have your wits about you in a time of crisis

I LOVE you guys who answer "questions" that are NOT being asked...???
Why do YOU "ASSume" that I WILL "lack the training"???
Did I not say, ABOVE..."of course after many hrs. & rounds practice w/chosen semi-auto"???
AND, did I NOT mention that I am an experienced hand-gunner...just not so much with long guns & bears?
YOU want to "jack" this thread?
Change the subject here?

NO one in my "party" is going to shoot the other...we KNOW & PRACTICE gun safety.
"I heard 'bout a story where all the hunters were jacked-up on PCP and wiped out everybody in a small AK town, along with ALL the bears and then each other"...?
I can tell scary "STORYS" too, lol !
Your post is perplexing???

 

[16n69]

I don't know how reliable the M4 will be in the cold and wet, but if you're satisfied it's reliable, a good 12 gauge slug is effective bear medicine at defensive range.

John

The NEW H2O M4 w/NP3 coating inside & out...was made for just that...WET weather and anything else!
Remarkable firearm...unrivaled reliability, check it out!

 

[Hunterdad]

Ok 16n69, ask the same question over and over again and you can expect answers like this.

Let me give you my input. Take one of the several guns you have already bought for the same purpose and go to the range. Become proficient with that weapon to the point where you feel comfortable using it in a high stress situation. Having several different types of guns for the same purpose won't do u a bit of good if you can't use them when presented with a high stress situation.

Good luck!

 

[JShirley]

Well, if you're satisfied the M4 is reliable, and you're serious about bear defense, then skip the SOCOM and buy $700 worth of good slugs and start practicing.

 

[CraigC]

...go somewhere else where you can discuss your SD & bullets all day with someone who will listen to you?

How do you effectively measure the potential effectiveness of a cartridge/load???

...but I have been told (and believe, knowing what I know about the ballistics of HG vs. SG & rifle cartridges)...that the HG should be the last ditch effort if you miss with the long gun...or don't have LG close. More energy from SB/rifle and with BIG bears, I am told from those who have been there...I am going to need a lot of knockdown power.

The only possible shortcoming with a properly loaded heavy sixgun will be the shooter. If the shooter is up to it, the sixgun cartridge will get it done.

"Knockdown" doesn't exist.

458 soccom is not rea
Ly high sectional density. The common 300gr loadings are the same SD as a 145 gr 308

The 350gr has less SD than a 165gr 30cal....

Problem with that comparison is that proper bullets for the .458 will expand little if any. Proper bullets for any .30cal will absolutely need to expand to be effective. Once a bullet begins to expand, its SD changes dramatically. A 180gr .30cal bullet with an SD of .271 that expands to a half inch will not penetrate like a .458" slug with an SD of .271 that does not expand. You have to compare apples to apples.

 

[jerkface11]

If you want talked out of a socom check the price of ammo and the availability of brass.

 

[Hocka Louis]

Yeah, Benelli makes the only semi I own but it is an old H&K inertia Armi System. But this marincote, Marines tested, M4 is supposed to be the cats pajamas in gas guns. And "self cleaning."

Again, I'd probably use huge plated buckshot shells myself for snap shooting/distances one's most likely to have to defend oneself in from a bear attack, but that's a personal decision -- I'm less confident I'd hit a charging bear in the right place at the right time with a slug to stop it short. A cloud of buckshot is sorta self correcting for distance and accuracy. I personally don't have any doubt about a fistful of .36 copper-plated pellets at 1,225 FPS stopping a Brown Bear.

 

[16n69]

Ok 16n69, ask the same question over and over again and you can expect answers like this.

Let me give you my input. Take one of the several guns you have already bought for the same purpose and go to the range. Become proficient with that weapon to the point where you feel comfortable using it in a high stress situation. Having several different types of guns for the same purpose won't do u a bit of good if you can't use them when presented with a high stress situation.

" one of the several guns you have already bought for the same purpose and go to the range. Become proficient with that weapon to the point where you feel comfortable using it in a high stress situation."
BTW...never said or intended JUST to buy several guns for "same PURPOSE"...they can & will have OTHER "purposes"!!!

Good luck!

" one of the several guns you have already bought for the same purpose and go to the range. Become proficient with that weapon to the point where you feel comfortable using it in a high stress situation."
BTW...never said or intended JUST to buy several guns for "same PURPOSE"...they can & will have OTHER "purposes"!!!
I can hunt elk, moose, deer, boar with the Marlin...defend my home & family with shot loaded M4 SG...etc.,etc.
Just wanted to narrow down what would be optimal for bear defense.


IT IS NOT the "Same" question...let me re-state or re-phrase my OP..."It has been suggested to me...INSTEAD of considering a SG vs. a LEVER rifle...how 'bout a .458 SOCOM in the AR15/M4 platform...due to speed & weight of shot combined putting a lot of hi-sectional density lead on Mr. Brown real w/ real quick follow up.?
I WANTED TO HEAR FROM AR15/M4 USERS WHO HAVE HUNTED/DEFENDED W/GUN and KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT LARGE BEAR DEFENSE???
If possible, that's all...that's IT!