Quantcast

Some ideas about taking control of gun control

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by RX-79G, Sep 10, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?
    Ohhhh... come on RX.

    Pointing out that your OP was a statement and you never asked a question or for other ideas isnt trolling. Neither is stating my belief based on your replies, that your intention, whether conscious or not, wasn't to have a meaningful discussion of other ideas.


    I'd guess that close to 1/2 my posts have spelling errors; especially while on my phone. I'd also guess that far more than 1/2 have punctuation errors.

    But I don't think I've even been criticized for it let alone 'never being able to live it down'.

    Not sure why you're pusing tangents like the other thread.
     
  2. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    8,752
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    Some observations on subjects raised here.

    Educate those ignorant of existing gun control just what the current laws are
    Several polls have indicated that support for gun control is strongest among people who know little or nothing about existing gun laws which includes some who believe there are no gun laws. Just a simple educational "John Doe buys a gun" walk through. going to a gun store, filling out a 4473, waiting for background check to clear, rules on legally transporting the gun home, would be a revelation to them.
    Conversely, the same studies show that the more a person knows about existing gun laws, the less likely they are to support more restrictive laws.
    point out laws aimed at the law abiding do not affect bad behavior by bad people and can have unintended consequences
    Growing up in a poor neighborhood in a county that was "dry" 1953-1968 when I was 5 to 20 y.o.. I know the gun laws did not affect the criminals as much as they affected the law abiding. A lot of people were spooked by the 1959-1960 state push to ban handguns; my dad and my uncle acquired pistols at that time just in case the ban went through. One place to get pistols then was the bootleggers promulgated by the dry law.
    if gun control was crime control, the government would have used stats from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, Firearms Use by Offenders survey BJS FUO, and would not have used the National Surevey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms NSPOF
    A simple explanation of where and how most criminals acquire weapons would be effective too, drawing on the Bureau of Justice Statistics prison inmate surveys of firearms sources used by offenders who used or carried a gun in the crime for which they were serving time. In the 2004 BJS FUO survey, 88% of crime gun sources were various grey or black market sources, only 12% were legal dealers less than 1% reported gun shows as a source; the Administration claimed 40% of criminals got their guns from unlicensed dealers at gunshows without background checks. That 40% misrepresented the 1994 National Survey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms (which polled random typically law-abiding gun owners); 19% reported gifts, 5% inheritances, 13% private purcase of used guns, 3% swaps and trades, totaling 40% guns not from dealers. The NSPOF 60% that bought from dealers included 4% from flea markets and gunshows lumped together.
    Stress: gun control is symbolic, like voodoo
    We need to put out a history lesson about the crusades against Demon Rum, Reefer Madness, comic books causing juvenile delinquency, burning "Lady Chatterly's Lover" to restore virtue to Boston, burning Beatles' White Albums to show disgust with the Manson Family murders. I see linking blind faith in gun control to mass hysteria like the medical pseudo-science behind the Satanic Ritual Abuse moral panick of the 1980s. We have a stuck-on-self-righteous-stupid history of voodoo criminology in this country going back to the Salem witch trials. The repeal of the dry law in my county was protested by warnings that legal alcohol would result in blood in the streets -- same rhetoric used against shall-issue carry permits. Neither prediction was supported by actual outcomes.
    touchy feely fiction?

    I don't believe a fictional touchy-feely drama would help. I would lean toward historical drama based on the Battle of Athens Tennessee when veterans took arms against a corrupt system just after WWII or Rob Williams' stand against the KKK in Monroe N.C. in the 1960s or the storekeepers in Los Angeles during the 1990s riots abandoned by the system to defend themselves.
    we're losing? and the media is biased against guns
    we're losing?
    As to whether we are losing or not, I have been observing gun law issues since I started traveling with my dad to the country to target practice in the 1950s. The state constitution declares citizens have the right to keep and bear arms (primarily for self-defense and military marksmanship training), but the legislature reserves the power to regulate with a view to prevent crime. Gun laws that don't affect crime but impede lawful and traditional ownership and use by the law-abiding go away in Tennessee. Lawful and traditional uses like hunting, defense of livestock, collection of curios or keepsakes, is not unprotected by the emphasis on self-defense and militia in Article I Section 26. I have seen state gun laws rolled back in the past 60 years I have been observing gun laws. We had a pistol purchase permit with up to 15 day waiting period on handgun sales and discretionary carry permit with 95 different standards set on the whim of the county sheriff good only within the county of issue; replaced by TICS Tennessee instant check system and state issued carry permit administered like drivers license recognized not only throughout the state but also recognized by a majority of states of the Union.
    The gun banners are desperate today because we have been winning, not losing. Get a grip people. The AWB sunset after 10 years experiment and was not renewed because (as the NRC pointed out) no one could find a measurable benefit to balance the considerable cost. National polls show 85% of the public believe there is an individual right to keep and bear arms. When the VA AG followed Bloomberg's guidance recently in disallowing VA recognition of other states' carry permits including Tennessee's, the Governor and legislature overrode that. Bloomberg fumed that they owed him because all the millions he had given to help elect them, but that didn't help. New York and Maryland quietly did away with their useless ballistic fingerprint databases even though anti-gunners liked them because they amounted to a hidden tax on guns. And recognition of right to carry for self defense is the norm, not the exception. And we're losing?
    media bias
    As far as the media being biased against guns, well, they are. When the drive toward what became the 1968 GCA started up when I was in high school 1963-1967 I noticed very strongly that the media never questioned how gun control is supposed to work or how it is supposed to stop bad behavior by bad people. They just blindly assumed if it's called gun control it will control gun crime. At the public library I periodically took the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature and hunted down every major magazine article in the library archives listed under Firearms Legislation. The major media (esp. NYC based periodicals) were invariably supportive of every federal gun control measure proposed by Senators Thomas J. Dodd, Jacob Javits and Joseph Tydings and invariably treated NRA as a four letter word.
    A ridiculous statement would be "the media is always fair and balanced on the issue of gun control". No. They. Are. Not. They can be forced to be fair when their "90% of Mexican crime guns come from USA" or "40% of US crime guns are bought at gunshows with no BG check" are obvious lies and we pound on it.
    There's a book on media bias against guns by a man who was biased against guns until he studied the issue:
    https://www.amazon.com/Bias-Against-Guns-Everything-Control/dp/0895261146/
     
  3. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    9,028
    Location:
    SC (Home), VA (Work)
    If you don't mind my asking, how old are you?

    You don't have to answer that. The point I'll make is that the gun laws now are FAR better than they were just a few decades ago.

    Do not let the ongoing battle get you down. Keep your focus, keep your faith, and continue to do your part in fighting the good fight.

    :)
     
  4. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,340
    "We have a stuck-on-self-righteous-stupid history of voodoo criminology in this country going back to the Salem witch trials."
    You do realize this nation was settled by Pilgrims who fled England's insufficiently Puritanical ways? :D (crazy to think about that from the modern perspective of the world being settled for five centuries; imagine some crazy cult of believers founding a Moon base for themselves today, and it's probably similar to the attitude of the era)

    "I don't believe a fictional touchy-feely drama would help. I would lean toward historical drama based on the Battle of Athens Tennessee when veterans took arms against a corrupt system just after WWII or Rob Williams' stand against the KKK in Monroe N.C. in the 1960s or the storekeepers in Los Angeles during the 1990s riots abandoned by the system to defend themselves."
    Or Walking Tall (but with a gun, which is a far more believable story even if the bat-wielding original supposedly happened), or High Noon, or Shane, or countless other stories about the importance & moral responsibility of firearms. It used to be a common theme in entertainment, actually, before the great gun purges of mid last century drove them from Hollywood in favor of anti-hero criminal types like Dirty Harry. The censor boards definitely stunted artistic development, but they were largely successful for a good four decades in propping up constructive moral arguments in mass media (it's actually funny to watch a romantic comedy or something from the few years prior to censoring when 'talkies' first came around, and see that people were every bit as racy and irreverent then as today, then see it instantly degrade into the corny Leave it to Beaver Stepford garbage & cowboy flicks we associate with our grandparents right around the Depression)

    TCB
     
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    55,614
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    This one is loosing focus. If it can't move towards a practical plan of action being outlined it will close today.
     
  6. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,808
    Well, I give up. Not because the idea wasn't worth discussing, but because discussing ideas isn't something that works on THR.
     
  7. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    55,614
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    You miss the point of Activism Discussion. It isn't for a philosophical discussion. Ideas are supposed to lead towards plans that can be deployed. Otherwise it is just complaining.
     
  8. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,808
    No, I didn't miss the point. I suggested a project to be funded by pro-gun groups to actively change the perception of owning a gun.

    The fact that my attempt to discuss this idea was mired in off topic philosophizing and active trolling by members who have zero interest in the idea or bringing it to reality is not my failure.

    If you believe talking about a several million dollar project is above the level of THR and therefore pointless, please provide that guidance. I was using this:

    If you need to hammer out ideas, or plans of action, use this forum to do it. This will keep the Activism forum clear to execute those plans.

    This isn't a place for partisan politics, whining, big philosophy or thread drift. Keep focused on constructive ideas to develop real plans to make real change in defending and restoring the Second Amendment.



    Alternately, you could consider stepping in a little earlier to suggest talking about the idea instead of people whining that there is no need for real change for 5 pages.
     
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    55,614
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Unless you can come up with the how to fund a 10s of millions entertainment project and get it into distribution the idea is pie in the sKY instead of practical.

    Working on a practical scale of a few 10s of thousands of dollars above the youtube, but below the indie film level, is far more practical since it could be Web distributed like the fan fiction websites. Support from pro 2A known actors could give more public appeal and pro 2A volunteers to fill sets. Making a low scale entertaining pro 2A fiction that isnt trying to get into theaters could promote the message even more effectively than the progressively more morbund big screen and cable network formats.
     
    Malamute likes this.
  10. Malamute

    Malamute Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,166
    Location:
    Rocky Mts
    I don't take it that way. I believe most just don't agree with your concept of "compromise" as a good idea to maintain what we have. I have no doubt there may be good ways to spread the ideas of firearms ownership and use being a healthy, valid idea without going into the country commonly caricatured by those opposed to the idea. A workable plan or idea that people agree with may not have been forwarded so far. That doesn't mean the concept isn't valid, just that what you've put forward hasn't gained traction or approval.

    Saw this today, its pretty straightforward and not quite in the exact same vein as most opinion pieces on the subject.




    ETA: I also wont discount action films as a positive point in peoples opinions about guns. Yes, many of the stories are far fetched, but the very thing about them being popular, and that many people then want to own and shoot a example of what they saw their silver screen heroes using does have a real part in peoples buying habits. Look at what happened when the Dirty Harry films came out, it was difficult to find model 29 Smiths for sale for some time. Despite that the guns were way too much for most novice shooters, it was likely the first time many decided to buy a gun. Once they step into the shooting and gun owning world, people often continue on to buy other guns and learn more about it. The ban scares of the past few years also prompted hordes of people to become first time gun buyers. Theres a number of factors that can play a part.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  11. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,808
    Compromise is not a part of the idea I presented in any way. You bringing it up again is an example of the type of off topic side discussion that completely derailed any possibility of discussing the premise of the thread. And yet you're still doing it.

    I don't know another way to explain this to you, but the point of my idea was not to get more people who might have bought a gun to buy a gun. The point was to make the people who would never consider buying a gun begin to understand where we're coming from and the burden they put on us.

    I'm sure Dirty Harry sold a lot model 29s - to people who would have bought a 19 instead. What that has to do with gun control is beyond me.
     
  12. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?
    I think you may have missed the point as well.
    Some people, presumably, would have bought their 1st gun because of Dirty Harry.

    And some of those are sure to have kept on shooting and become a 2A supporter from a previous position of a fence sitter or possibly an Anti.

    That's an angle of how it could be related to gun control. And it fits your scenario above where you italicized "might'.

    Communication is a 2 way street. You may have missed a point in his post just as badly as you've been saying others have been missing yours even though he was at least partially agreeing with you.


    Now,,,, spoon feed us.

    Give us 5-10 sentences of your movie and another few on how you propose it gets funded.
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    55,614
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Ookaayy, the basic idea to work on presenting a pro 2A message palatable wrapped in an entertainment she'll is a good one. Doing this in a big budget film might not be practical, but we have other options that traditional blockbuster entertainment, which might actually be a minor avenue compared to more modern communications routes, don't provide. Shorter formats or serial formats are very popular now and can present in graphic novels, video and even serial youtube entertainment.

    These are more flexible and less expensive incrementally than a larger format so more easily funded.
     
  14. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,340
    As far as realistic, practical game plans, I would submit that drawing up a loose screenplay, and filming a few select snippets for a Youtube teaser, is probably the most realistic goal, though still a pretty steep one. Basically a pitch for getting more resources through real sponsorship that would see the project the rest of the way through. Unless someone has the local film school & theater group at their beck and call, it's gonna be hard to put together much more than that in a reasonable time frame (and have it be worth a darn). I'm an engineer, not a film major, but my one theatre elective class taught me that even a modest production is a pretty ambitious undertaking.

    Following the path of a handgun across several generations of stories would be an interesting approach (ironically focusing on the firearm in order to illustrate its moral neutrality). Personal defense, to war/police use, to theft, to morally-questionable carriage by a criminal, to carriage by reformed criminal, to inheritance, to neglect, to discard by ignorant/fearful descendant, to destruction or rescue by a collector or to bring the story full circle somehow. Would be a straight-forward way to touch on numerous facets of gun ownership that might be hard to pull off with a single protagonist. The separate chapters make it easier to break up the various themes without getting confusing, too, and make serial production a lot simpler to do well.

    One other thing I just remembered; there's actually a number of video games out there that have featured domestic/self-defense scenarios in a positive light, many even conveying the urgency of action & consequences of failure (one of the Splinter Cell games actually had a fairly decent one). Again, for the large chunk of populace that's never known violent conflict, little interactive 'realistic' vignettes like this are another way the message is being conveyed (I think a video game project would be even more formidable, however)

    TCB
     
  15. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice