Some numbers on the Canadian Gun registry......

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BDFT

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....or how to spend 2 billion dollars without really trying. Bear in mind that after all this, the gun registry is absolutely useless. Oddly enough, criminals still use firearms to commit crimes. :rolleyes:

I'm the author of the essay that Mike Campbell based his Vancouver Sun column on. The essay was selected for the Letter of the Week awark [sic -- 'award'] at Mark Steyn's web site. . . .

My Fellow Canadian ~

I once read an excellent Isaac Asimov non-fiction essay on really big numbers. Humans are in general really bad at understanding big numbers. Because of my math / science / engineering background, I'm maybe a bit better than average, but I'm no Asimov. I have though learned a few ways to help me better understand big numbers, so that I can better deal with them when I need to. This essay shows how some of those methods work.

The initial Government of Canada estimate for the gun registry database system was $1 million. Technically, I think that's probably a bit low. Based on my on three decades of work in the field of distributed multi-user database transaction processing systems like the registry, and on some systems I'm currently working on which are of that type, I think $3 million would have been a better estimate.

If someone from the Government of Canada can provide me with a simple accounting showing some component of the system that I've missed, I'd be more than happy to adjust my analysis of the situation to take that data into account. My current analysis is based on the numbers I have collected from the public media over the last few years.

Given how important it is for state monopolies to serve citizens to the highest possible ethical standard, let's throw in a factor of three-ish over my base estimate and call it $10 million, to be as careful as possible.

Now, say you had such a $10 million contract with some customers. And then, say you spent three times that: $30 million. Does it occur to you that your customers (in this case, we citizens) might be, oh, shall we say, somewhat angry? Ok, let's say it's another factor of three: $90 million. How are your customers doing now? Fine. Let's throw in another factor of three, so we're now up to $270 million. How angry are your customers now? In more primitive times than we live in, would you still be alive? But wait, there's more. How much would we pay for another factor of three? Oh, about $810 million. Say, that's interesting, the gun registry database system has, according to the CBC, cost $750 million.

It didn't cost 3 times as much. Or 3 times 3 times as much. Or 3 times 3 times 3 times as much. It cost 3 times 3 times 3 times 3 times as much.

That's like planning to have two children, and ending up with 162 (two times three to the power of four). Now stop. Think about that number, 162 children. It's unimaginable that you could legitimately have 162 children, in any way whatsoever. Likewise, there is no way I can come up with to imagine how the registry database project could legitimately cost $750 million, whatsoever.

Never mind that it is to me unfathomable that it could take eight years to develop the registry database, and never mind that according to the CBC it doesn't actually work; $750 million divided by eight years is about $250,000 per day. That's right, they spent what should have been, at its most extreme, a $10 million budget for the entire project, they spent that much every 40 days, for eight years.

Here's another way to look at it. The database system has cost about 750 / 8 = $94 million per year, for eight years. Loaded full-time staff costs in this field are about $100,000 per year. That means the development of this system employed 940 full-time staff per year for eight years. How the hell can a database fundamentally designed
to store and retrieve 7 million gun records distributed across 3 million person records take 7,500 man-years to develop? What is this, the Pyramid of Cheops?

(Actually, the CBC's total cost figure of $2 billion for the entire gun registry "file" amounts to about $685,000 per day, which means they spent the entire initially estimated budget of $2 million, again according to the CBC, every three days, for eight years straight.That's 20,000 man-years, to register 7 million guns. But what do I know, I'm just a software guy, I'll stick to the database system.)

Corporations get sued for cost overruns on the order of tens of percent. Assuming my careful $10 million estimate is reasonable, the registry database is not 10 % over. It's not 100 % over. It's not 1,000 % over. It's 7,500 % over.

It's not 10 times less than the standard we citizens are held to, under threat of criminal prosecution. It's not 100 times less. The state's standard of performance for itself is 750 times less than the standard it holds us to.

Who the hell, exactly, do these people think they are, and why the hell shouldn't we smite them?

Ok, I'll tell you what. Section 380 of the Criminal Code of Canada calls for jail for up to 10 years for fraud over $5,000. Applying the 750 factor apparently used by State Canada, let's just say that any politician or civil servant that is guilty of fraud over $5,000 should go to jail for 7,500 years.

That's starting to sound like a big enough number for me.

Yours,
Tony Olekshy,
The Sagacious Iconoclast
 
Sounds like a fantastic idea to me; of course, a whole lot of that money went back to the LIEberals in brown paper bags under restaurant tables. They spent more on ADVERTISING CONTRACTS for this nonsense through Groupaction in Montreal than the ENTIRE PROGRAM was supposed to cost when that *&%# Rock initially announced it.
 
Welcome to THR and please, please please keep giving us posts like this one. It's brilliant, simple, and I'm taking a line for my signature quote. Thanks Tony
 
You guys north of the border complaining about a lousy $2B:D Can you imagine what it would cost down here as good as our government is at spending money? For the cost of the program here we could probably move all the gun owners to Canada and pay the premiums to get in your health care system.
 
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very interesting lets look at the math again shall we?
2 billion dollars to register 7 million guns = $285.71 per firearm and it still doesn't work right.
Why does this not shock me? How do we get to the point in society that this kind of waste is looked as (just the way it is)?:cuss::banghead:
 
It's not just incompetence that caused this, it's deliberate theft and waste; even at the most charitable estimates, this program has cost at least $150 per firearm. At the same time, Canada's Food Inspection branch has a registry that tracks 25 million cows, can tell you where they were born, where they live, what they eat, and where they are slaughtered, ALL FOR LESS THAN 30 CENTS PER COW. That thieving bastard Chretien deserves to hang, right next to that scumbag Allan Rock, and any MP that voted for this boondoggle.
 
Ok, I'll tell you what. Section 380 of the Criminal Code of Canada calls for jail for up to 10 years for fraud over $5,000. Applying the 750 factor apparently used by State Canada, let's just say that any politician or civil servant that is guilty of fraud over $5,000 should go to jail for 7,500 years.

I propose charging EVERYONE who voted for it, campaigned for it, administered it, and otherwise supported it, including the folks hired to advertise its "benefits."

Of course, I'm not Canadian.

ECS
 
LMAO!!!!!

"It didn't cost 3 times as much. Or 3 times 3 times as much. Or 3 times 3 times 3 times as much. It cost 3 times 3 times 3 times 3 times as much.

That's like planning to have two children, and ending up with 162 "



BEST QUOTE EVER ON THE REGISTRY!

Harper is trying to remove it as of november 11 2007, but it is still there. They want to keep the registry for restricted firearms such as particular rifles and handguns, but they want to remove it for non-restricted.

It'll cut costs, but in no way will it still be a good idea or inexpensive... I think harper is planning one step at a time instead of everything. First the long gun registry, then the short ones. It should be like the good ol days.

Get a Firearms Aquisition Certificate. goto the local gun store, show them said certificate, pay xxx money and walk home with gun.
Restricted's like handguns would be registered with the clerk who would then submit the list for the month to the local police chief. There was no national database or any of that crap before.

sigh... One can only dream. Before 2001 we were very similar to america in terms of how firearms were handled.
 
Good article. I agree that 2 billion is a ton of money. The US deficit in FY 2008 was 410 billion. I am sure a few politicians would gladly tack on another two billion to try and register every gun in the US without batting an eye.
 
Hey you guys north of the border, twisted hemp is cheaper by far and hasn't been outlawed yet for stretch parties. My wife brought her guns over with her when she moved to the states.
 
Good article. I agree that 2 billion is a ton of money. The US deficit in FY 2008 was 410 billion. I am sure a few politicians would gladly tack on another two billion to try and register every gun in the US without batting an eye.

Heh. That's what it cost them to register 7 million guns.

We have 290 million (according to current estimates - this may be lower than it actually is).

That same program, run in the exact same manner with the same cost per gun, would end up costing us $82.86 Billion.
 
Oh, come on, that's only about $60 ($Canadian or $US?) per Canadian.* What a bargain!
:eek:
Oh, wait, that's just the cost so far...and it's more or less useless. More $pend to come, of course.

*$2 billion/33 million Canadians
 
That's one of the best written articles I've ever read. Tony, would it be possible for you to go to Washington State and write a piece on Seattle's light rail system, currently under construction?
 
I've been playing with a calculator here, and to give you an idea of exactly how much 2 billion dollars (two thousand million) is, if you had two billion dollar bills, you could build a wall 11 feet tall around the ENTIRE PLANET at the equator. I'm thinking that hanging is too good for these thieves.
 
if you had two billion dollar bills, you could build a wall 11 feet tall around the ENTIRE PLANET at the equator. I'm thinking that hanging is too good for these thieves.

Another perspective:

If someone gave you a dollar per minute, 24/7..it would take about 12 days for you to have a million dollars.

If that rate of cash flow continued until you had a billion...it would take over 33 years for you to become a billionaire.

A billion dollars ain't exactly chump change.

Excellent post BDFT. Welcome aboard.
 
I'll be curious to see how many Central American villas, nose candy, male and female "escorts" and exotic sports cars that paid for.

Just consider that a SMALL economic stimulus package!
 
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