Some questions about a souped up FBI load

[19-3Ben]

Well...not quite. Really some questions about the 158gr LSWCHP bullet and loading for it.

1) Does anybody load this in a .357mag? I usually consider 158gr heavier than I'd like in a .357mag for SD purposes because of risk of over penetration. But that's usually in talking about JHP. If it has no jacket because it is a LSWCHP, could it be that at .357 mag velocities it will mushroom like crazy (possibly even tear apart into several smaller pieces), but because of the weight still penetrate enough?

I know that buffalo bore makes a +p loading for this that looks really cool. Id just be really interested to see what it would do at say...1300 FPS from a 3"bbl Sp101.
My guess is that it would not hold together and that the smaller pieces would not reliably penetrate. But then again, it'd probably still penetrate more than Glaser Safety slugs, and it also wouldn't bust up on clothing, and it would have better penetration through bone and whatnot, so I still hold on to the idea that it might be doable.

 

[hank327]

I think if you use lead soft enough to expand the LSWCHP and drive it at magnum velocities you would get excessive leading in the barrel. I think the LSWC that are used in 357 loads are hard cast and are not meant to expand.
I know that Buffalo Bore has to use a gas check on those 38 Special +P loads to prevent leading at those velocities. I don't know if the gas check would work with soft lead at 1300 FPS.

 

[prescobd]

357 FBI load

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Hornady used to load a 158 gr. SWCHP .357 Mag load.

 

[Jim March]

Right, you can't load soft "expansion grade" lead past supersonic speeds without leading. The Buffalo Bore has that copper plate "gas check" at the base to slow burn-off at the base (think "heat shield") but it only goes so far.

Speer sells an interesting bullet that has an identical exposed nose as the lead 158s but is cupped sides and bottom in copper. It's technically "jacketed" but the expansion works like the 158s. It's actually a 148gr slug. Nobody loads it commercially, but it's still available to reloaders.

 

[Jim Watson]

For years the .357 was factory loaded with a swaged semiwadcutter (though not hollowpointed) at higher velocity than now realized. It was famous for bore leading and has largely been replaced by jacketed. You can do a lot with well lubricated cast bullets, manipulating them with alloy hardness and gas checks, but there is a fine line between expansion, no expansion, and fragmentation.

 

[rcmodel]

You will not get total fragmentation out of any .357 revolver bullet, especially in your 3" SP101. (Except Mag-Safe and junk like that.)

The 158 grain LSWC-HP bullet, if cast soft, will expand, and may shed it's HP nose if cast hard, but the base of the bullet (over 100 grains or more) will always hang together & provide plenty of penetration.

I think it would be an excellent SD load for your short barrel .357.

In fact, I think this Buffalo Bore .38 Spl. +P load would be an excellent SD load for your SP101.
Lots of power without all the .357 Mag. Flash & Blast!

"Item 20A: 158gr., very soft cast, semi wad cutter, (Keith) hollow cavity, with a gas check. This bullet will mushroom violently on impact and will penetrate roughly 14 inches in human flesh. Again, this bullet is gas checked and will not lead your barrel.
* Ruger SP101, 3 inch—1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)"


rcmodel

 

[The_Shootist]

Grin

Yeah - if want a stout load in .38 spl, the BB FBI flavour is the way to go. Shot a box out of my 3" bbl SP 101 and the difference between it and the standard FBI load is VERY noticeable. I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between it and a medium power .357 load, like the Golden Sabre.

If you can master it, it likely would be a dandy SD load - but at over $20 a box its kinda pricey to get used to!

 

[Jim March]

I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between it and a medium power .357 load, like the Golden Sabre.

The energy numbers bear this out too.

That said, loading that Speer 148gr slug to around 1,200ish would produce a very sweet load indeed.

 

[19-3Ben]

interesting stuff. When I finally cycle out my Speer factory 135gr SBGD's I'll have to try out some different loads. I wouldn't be against putting those BB .38+p's in my SP101, but at over a dollar a shot, I dunno that it would really be worth it when Double Tap and Georgia Arms are half the price and also have a darn good rep.

 

[rcmodel]

Those Speer 146 grain half-jacket HP's were the grand-daddy of all of todays modern JHP bullets.
When they first came out in the early 60's, they were a revolution in handgun bullets. Prior to that, Cast Lead gas-check HP's were all we had except for Jim Harveys Pro-Tex bore zink-based cast HP's.

And it is still a mighty fine bullet today!
Just don't try to make a light plinking load out of them.

Unless driven to full power, they can separate and leave a 1/2 jacket stuck in the bore. If you load them, heed Speers starting load data carefully and never go under it!


rcmodel

 

[Jim March]

RCModel: GREAT post. Thank you, and you're right that these are 146s instead of 148s as my faulty memory stated.

 

[jfh]

I've shot the BB158 38+P stuff over a chrono

in both a M&P340 (lightweight) and a 640. It honestly did just over 1000 fps; about 1020. Even more interesting, it "felt like" a 38 Special round--and softer than the GDSB135 357 load that run 980-990 out of the same revolvers.

It's truly a carry-able / shootable round in lightweights, if your hand is conditioned. I've shifted to it for my carry load with our Winter wear-time here in MN; I carry the GDSB135s when it's warmer.

Meanwhile, I've started to do some load development with the Speer 158LSWC-HP. For 2", my target is 850 fps--we shall see; I am very curious to what numbers come up for shooting it under WSF3.

And, for today's HP design, don't forget that Speer has some GDSB147s.

Jim H.

 

[Majic]

There are such things as 2 part bullets. The bullet nose and the bore shank is casted in 2 different molds. The shank can be cast hard to resist leading and the nose cast soft to insure expansion. The 2 bullet parts are then glued together. Today you seldom see these old molds but check with the older casters or you can have your own custom made.
Another cause of leading due to high velocites is your lube. Adjusting your lube or going to a mold that has bigger lube grooves can allow higher velocities.