Someone talk me down from a semi-custom 1911 purchase

[herefordman1]

Buy the 1911. If you don't like it send it to me for disposal.

 

[Magnumite]

The S&W PC 1911 starts out at $2489 retail. You can knock $200 - 400 off that a distributor prices.
Some of the differences in profiles in these 1911's is not subtle. You can't put a Baer grip safety on a Brown frame without welding or putting a Dutchman on the frame or replacing the frame itself
if the profile of the Baer gs is what you want.

 

[akadave]

Les Baer Premier II for about $1600

 

[Skylerbone]

Prices taken from Bud's online, my local guy sells at nearly the same price or lower in most cases. S&W's MSRP is always inflated ie. the M&P lists at $719 and can be had for $535. I won't bash Nighthawk, Baer or Wilson as they have solid reputations but a 1911 properly set up, is a 1911, is a 1911. The Performance Center hand builds just like the others listed but Smith forges their own parts, has a lifetime warranty, excellent customer service and a long history of reliability.

Again, it's a suggestion, I feel it meets the criteria and needs little more than a better set of grips to be right "out of the box". The reason many custom guns feel "different" in the hand is the attention paid to the grips used. I did not suggest Sarge grips because they're the nicest looking grip that money can buy (although they are) but for ergonomic reasons. With similar weights, balance, design and size, what makes all the difference in a pistol's feel is the one part (excepting the front and backstrap) the user actually handles. What makes the average 1911 unreliable is replacing too many parts and altering feed ramps and chambers.

 

[Magnumite]

I haven't looked...does Sarge produce checker grips. All I've seen are smooth stocks.

 

[Harold Mayo]

Not gonna talk you DOWN. What you need to do is go the other way. Get a FULL CUSTOM 1911 done the way you want it. Shop around and you can get a complete custom from a good gunsmith for the price of a semi-custom, though your wait time will likely be longer.

 

[Slamfire]

I sent this Colt to Wilson Combat and they made it work. I am a happy customer.

They did such a good job, I will bet that the ones they make from scratch are even better. I don't think you can go wrong with Wilson.

 

[Thorgrim]

I'm going to repeat myself, this time in more detail - make a list of what you expect this pistol to do, manage the initial weeding-out yourself, then talk to a smith about getting exactly what you want. A package custom includes whatever someone else decided was important, which may or may not be what is important to you. You're talking about spending enough money to have it your way, take advantage of it. I had a Gold Cup extensively worked over by Lin Alexiou, and when he called me to tell me it was in the mail (imagine that, mailing a pistol!) he said "next time, just tell me what you want before you buy something, I took a lot of crap off that pistol and you had paid for it - twice, once when you bought it, and again when I had to get rid of it. Next time let's start from scratch, and I'll even provide the basic platform, you'll be happier because you'll end up with the same gun, much cheaper".

I know there are more sophisticated guns than a 1911, and they have many fine qualities it lacks. But ... if my wife wakes me from a sound sleep and slaps my 1911 in my hand because someone is breaking down the door, then I only have to deal with the human element. It's just a tool, but this tool is familiar at the "lizard brain" level. My biggest problem will be figuring out the flashlight, the pistol part is hard-wired.

You just have to figure out which pistol is wired to your brain.

 

[ugaarguy]

I have a friend who owns several firearms which have been worked over by Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision. There really is a difference between my pre Series II Kimbers & SA Loadeds, and Mr. Stroh's work. His prices are very reasonable for the level of craftsmanship, accuracy, and reliability delivered. Do check into his work - http://www.alphaprecisioninc.com/auto/default.htm. I'm sure BullfrogKen will have similar things to say about his gunsmith of choice, Jim Garthwaite. On that note, I'd also take a good look at what Mr. Garthwaite offers, as BullfrogKen is a man whom I trust in all matters 1911.

 

[Skylerbone]

Checkering can be added to any of Sarge's stocks (that's grips for us laymen: ) by selecting it as an option.

Remember too that clicking on the pic will give you a larger image of the actual stocks you will receive, not a "stock photo".

 

[gun guy]

This is easy, you want a new airplane, don't buy a biplane, buy a learjet. You need new transport, colts aren't riden anymore, buy a new vette. Why buy an obsulete 1911? to go with your new flintlock? Its the 21st Century. Nothing wrong with the 45 acp, just buy a modern platform that supports it. The Taurus OSS 24/7 45 comes to mind. More firepower, better sights, more carry options SA/DA, utility rail, offhand knotch. Glock, FN, several hi cap options. The 1911 was good in its day, so was the model T or the B-17. They are museum pieces now. Forget old n busted, go with the new hotness. Easy.

 

[ugaarguy]

The Taurus OSS 24/7 45 comes to mind. A polymer frame Taurus? You know those have one of the highest failure rates in the industry right?More firepower,Do you need more than 8 rounds in a handgun magazine? better sights,Not compared to current 1911s more carry optionsHow so? SA/DA,What's so great about that? utility railYou can get a Mil Std 1913 rail on a 1911 now too, offhand knotch.*** is an offhand "knotch"? Glock,Glocks aren't SA/DA, they're actually, more or less, modified DAO FN, several hi cap options. The 1911 was good in its day, so was the model T or the B-17. They are museum pieces now. Forget old n busted, go with the new hotness. Easy.Please, Please, Please send a PM to Chindo18Z and tell him that the 1911 he carried in Iraq is an old and busted museum piece

It's funny how my old roomie, now a Special Agent, found one of my 1911s easier to carry IWB than his Glock 23, despite the 1911 actually being heavier. The slimmer profile and rounded contours of old slab sides made him forget the 1911 was on his side after an hour - something that he couldn't say of his Glocks. His duty weapon is now a SIG P229, and he just bought another P229 as his personal piece after selling his G23. He's a factory trained Glock armorer, but would rather carry a 1911 or a SIG than a Glock. He carries the SIG because that's what he's issued though. He also shot at the top of his class at FLETC. I guess he just doesn't know that those 1911s he likes are supposed to be museum pieces.

 

[Skylerbone]

Good points, maybe he's right. Who doesn't need a futility rail to open beer bottles with? Who stops a threat with only 7 or 8 rounds of .45ACP? Who couldn't use a nice Offhand knotch that's sexy? (I don't know what that is but I'm old, like 30 something). Perhaps Taurus is the REAL solution. Perhaps obsolete is "obsulete".

I wonder if the new hotness is what you feel when your mod-ern pistol fails...I'll check that out on the Internet as soon as I find out where THAT is.

 

[elrey]

riden; obsulete; Taurus; knotch

Well, I don't know about you guys but now I'm SOLD on a 1911.

All kidding aside, a "fully" custom model sure sounds appealing but it's hard to know which pistolsmith/shop to go with.

 

[Quack]

i say no, look at how horrible the machining was on one of my 1911's, they totally screwed up when they machined the frame



and they messed up the slide on this one. it's not even the proper length :lol:

 

[BullfrogKen]

I'm sure BullfrogKen will have similar things to say about his gunsmith of choice, Jim Garthwaite. On that note, I'd also take a good look at what Mr. Garthwaite offers, as BullfrogKen is a man whom I trust in all matters 1911.

I'm not an expert in the 1911 by any stretch. I just have my preferences, and am very fortunate to know Jim well.


Anyone who owns a 1911, or is thinking about owning one soon would be well served with this little primer.


Wilson Combat 1911 Auto Maintenance Manual by Bill Wilson

Oh, and uh, ignore non-sense this -

Why buy an obsulete 1911? to go with your new flintlock? Its the 21st Century. . . . The 1911 was good in its day, so was the model T or the B-17. They are museum pieces now. Forget old n busted, go with the new hotness. Easy.

 

[ms6852]

http://springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=18
http://springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=16

Best $1400 I ever spent for both weapons which I carry conceal 98% of the time. Never had problems. Trust both of them to go boom shoot the time ever come.

 

[surjimmy]

NO.... EB Executive Carry. Series 70 Colt by Mr. Yost Colt Delta Elite by Chuck Warner

 

[DHart]

Over the years I've owned quite a few "Chevrolet" type pistols (Glocks, Berettas, Springfields, Colts, Browning HPs, Rugers, Dan Wessons, Kimbers, Kahrs, SIGs, S&W's, etc.) and a number of "Cadillac" and "Mercedes" type models (HKs, Wilsons, STIs, and Browns)... and a number of custom 1911's as well (Christiansons, Harrisons, and Tibbetses). You can spend a huge amount of money on high end and custom 1911's and, yes, they are wonderful guns.

In the end, any of them can and will serve defense needs very well indeed. I'm just as happy tucking a G30, G23, G19, M&P40C, or a Colt Commander into my waistband as I head out into the world as I am a custom, uber expensive 1911. After buying a number of very costly 1911's (semis and customs) I've come to realize that while they're really nice guns for sure... you don't NEED guns like that to be well served by a defense weapon.

If you know what you're doing and you can shoot your gun well, that's what matters.

So buy what strikes your fancy, experience them all, spend a pot full of money on the uber guns if you really want to... ultimately you will probably come to the same conclusion... that you can be well served by the Chevy or the Rolls... they just have different flavors and styles. And sometimes you just have to own a Mercedes to get that perspective on things. But not everyone needs to do that to appreciate the playing field.

I built up a nice gun collection over the years and lately have been winding it down... and I'm fine with letting go of some of the uber costly guns because I know I can trust and be well served by other, more common, and less "special" guns. So experience the special fruit if you wish to... it's part of the overall experience. But you will probably find that there is no "magic" in a $3k gun... it's just a fancy gun with more attention to the details, that's all! They're a bit nicer than the less expensive guns, but no more deadly and no more reliable than a good, well-running basic piece.

 

[gun guy]

Polymer frames have the highest failure rate? A rather blanket, unsuported statement, I assume you contacted every manufacturer of polymer weapons, and put together these facts? or just pull them out of your...hat? Who needs more than 8 rounds? Maybe anyone that has been run on in a combat setting. Contact so and so for their deployment story? I take it that you have no first hand combat experience to share with us then? Granted it is rare, outside of combat, to need more than a few rounds, but situations such as the hollywood shootout do occur. I can tell you, first hand, running out of ammo in the middle of a gunfight is no fun at all. I know several officers, that have burned thru 8 rounds just dealing with one offender. Better to have it, and not need it, than need it and not have it. And the whole point of this thread was to talk him out of a 1911.

 

[ElectrikKoolAid]

Nothing wrong with the 45 acp, just buy a modern platform that supports it. The Taurus OSS 24/7 45 comes to mind. More firepower, better sights, more carry options SA/DA, utility rail, offhand knotch. Glock, FN, several hi cap options. The 1911 was good in its day, so was the model T or the B-17. They are museum pieces now. Forget old n busted, go with the new hotness.

You probably don't quite understand the appeal of a 1911, so let me put it in motorcycle terms:

A Harley is often cantankerous, expensive to buy and own, prone to problems, and requires quite a bit of tinkering by the owner for best operation. The base unit is often just the start of a long (and expensive) list of customizing a typical owner will embark upon as they build their "dream bike". A modern Honda, Yamaha or other Japanese requires none of this cost, but at the cost of having a soul.

If you enjoy motorcyclING, it is probably best to buy a Jap bike. If you enjoy motorcyclES, you buy a Harley. At some point, the tradition, history, and attention to detail of a finely customized Harley makes it into a work of mechanical art, and not just a 2 wheeled vehicle.

Reflect the analogy back to guns, and maybe you'll "get it" vis a vis The Cult of 1911.

However, the Taurus you listed qualifies as neither a reliable ride or an example of precision craftsmanship, object of art, or piece of history, so it is unlikely to satisfy the original poster on any of his perceived needs to justify buying an expensive gun.

See?

 

[benderx4]

After owning MANY Springfields, Colts, and DWs, I sold them all and bought a Les Baer TRS and a Springfield Custom. It truly was worth the extra bucks, these two guns are better, in every way, than the mass production guns. Good luck!

 

[TonyT]

I purchased a Dan wesson Pointman several yeras ago and have been very impressed with both it's quality and relaibility right our of the box - great trigger, full ribbed slide, tight fit of slide to frame. I also have a Springfield Trophy Match which is very accurate but I had to replace the factory innards since the factory trigger was very heavy. I believe you can get what you want in either of these two without paying the semi-custom price for a 1911.

Recently I purchased the full size S&W M&P45 and have been very pleasantly surprised by it's accuracy and relaibility - it ate everything from 185 gr. LSWC's to 230 gr. FMJ's and provided nice tight 2 inch 10 shot groups at 50 ft.

For bullseye pistol in 45 ACP I prefer the 1911's since you can get avery nice SA trigger. For defensive purposes I only carry and use a handgun without any external safeties. In a serious situation I do not want to be concerned about grip or slide safeties and thus go for the Kahr, Glock and S&W M&P lines.

 

[Rinspeed]

Best $1600 I've ever spent.

 

[Skylerbone]

My father opted out of the 15+1 9mm program after 2 years of carrying a 92 in favor of his 6 rounds of .357 via 686. Lucky for him he was grandfathered in. In 30+ years of LE he never once needed either speedloader he carried nor the Model 60 he wore on his ankle. I know dozens of officers very well and only 2 who had to reload during a shootout; when after their first magazines were empty and the lone subject was still firing back. He sustained multiple wounds when finally one lucky shot hit him in the hand and he dropped his weapon.

That is a firefight that had not been seen before in this area and has not been seen since. It is a rarity And in this case of duty, not self-defense. The SD mindset is to protect yourself within the confines of the law. You cannot shoot a Hooter's waitress for violating your personal space and you are not obligated to stay and shoot it out if an escape route is available.

It seems likely the op was facetious in his title, the post makes clear his desire to own a reliable, well appointed 1911. It has withstood 100 years of scrutiny from every angle. It has been replaced by countless agencies in favor of "better" pistols. Beretta, then Sig, no Glock, maybe FN in a no win pursuit of perfection. Many of these threads are devoted to discussion of what Seals carry or which pistol the FBI is fielding this week and it's sad to me.

What is refreshing is to see so many stand firm in their resolve to preserve the reputation of the finest pistol design ever witnessed by man. It need not be the only handgun you own but it ought to account for one of them.