Someone verify my loads before I blow a hand off? 9mm and .38, Red Dot and Clays.

[Deus Machina]

Got a couple conflicting load specs recently. Just want to make sure other people have tried these before I break myself of my life-long habit of keeping all my fingers organized.

9mm, 125gr Lee cast LRN, non tumble-lube. As-cast at .356". These must be loaded to 1.148" OAL or less, to fit all my pistols.
Shot from 3.5" to 4" barrels.
Red Dot 4.3gr - 1.148" OAL.
Clays 3.1gr - 1.125" OAL

.38 Special 158gr Lee tumble-lube cast SWC. As cast at .358".
Shot from a lightweight 2.5" barrel.
Red Dot 3.0gr - 1.485" OAL; 2nd groove
Clays 2.9gr - 1.435" OAL; top groove.

No one has said anything about the Clays yet, but the Red Dot load came from Lee's 2nd Ed, and someone claimed that 9mm would be overpressure at stated min OAL 1.15" and 4.3gr load, while my book states max load is 4.5gr.

As for the .38 special, I'd like to seat the Red Dot load to the top groove, if the shorter length wouldn't harm it.

 

[fireflyfather]

I use the red dot load for .38spl all the time from a snub. Assuming you use the same OAL as I do (don't remember off the top of my head, but I use the crimp groove closest to the "nose" of the bullet), it's not even close to being dangerous. (+p can be up to 3.4 grains, depending on manual). Fairly mild loads. I probably even use the same bullet as you (TL-358-158-SWC). I use straight clip-on wheel weight alloy.

 

[rcmodel]

Revolver bullets should be seated to the crimp groove, whatever that OAL turns out to be.

Lyman #49 lists a 9mm 120 (125 with grease) and Red Dot = 3.9 MAX -
2002 Alliant load book shows 125 lead - Red Dot = 4.5 MAx.
Hodgdon 2009 says 125 lead - 3.3 MAX.
You should be fine.

Alliant 2002 says 3.1 MAX with a 158 SWC in .38 Spl.
Hodgdon says 3.1 Clays is MAX.
So you should be fine there too.

rc

 

[Lee Roder]

You won't need to blow your hand off

with Clays at these loads in 38spl. You'll like it. It's shoots very clean.

 

[Deus Machina]

Alright, next batch gets min loads and crimped at the top groove. It's a tumble lube mold (Yep, the same one, Firefly!) and appears that there's no actual physical difference. I'll allot my Clays (I only have a pound) to the .38, and keep the Red Dot (8lbs) in my 9mm.

Wonder why the manuals vary so much on the red dot...

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I use that same data for RD in 9mm with 124 gr hard cast tc's for several S&W semis, it's a good load IMO. I've thought about dropping back to 4.0 grs but this load is accurate. I do know that RD pressure spikes quickly may be a reason others than alliant show lighter charges as max.

 

[Steve C]

By your own admission 4.5grs is maximum so why are you starting at 4.3? A proper start load is a 10% reduction from maximum. If you do the math and round down to the nearest 10th Grain your start load should be 4.0grs. better to make a few rounds at each load level and try them out to find the best load and check for pressure signs than to run a couple hundred at some charge amount you pick from out of the air and "hope" its good.

If you compare the lower level Red Dot data from other sources you will see the resultant velocities are for below 1,000 fps considered the point where you may get barrel leading with lead bullets. Alliants data is for full power and pressure loads at 1,100 fps +. With the proper degree of hardness and bullet to bore size match you may get no leading even at the higher velocity but as with most reloading you just have to try and see if it you get leading or not.

 

[Deus Machina]

Ran a batch in at 4.1, I'll try that.

I started at 4.3 because that's what Lee says is the minimum, so I figured it was a start--I could always go down from there if it seemed to work well.

I'll note there is a noticeable difference between 4.3 and 4.1--it's a 'fluffy' powder.

 

[bluetopper]

Best I think to just use Clays in 38 loadings and use the Red dot for 9mm.

I personally have relegated Clays to low pressure rounds such as 38 and 45 and with those, it's performance is top notch. Burns clean, low recoil, and superb accuracy.