SP-101 for woods protection - which ammo?

[Landric]

I've generally seen a 200+ fps increase from .38 Special +P to .357 Magnum in my testing of various bullet weights and loads in my 2 1/4" SP101. While my standard +P .38 158 grain is a max load according to the books (and running 825-850 fps) out of a snubbie, magnum loads nowhere near max easily make 1050fps, and could be pushed much faster with available data.

I don't have any experience with Buffalo Bore ammunition, and at the prices they want for it I probably never will, but I have heard from a number of sources that their 158 grain load really does make 1000 fps out of a snubbie. I am sure I could make the same with a .38 Special handload, but I'd be going out beyond the data available. On the other hand, exceeding 1000 fps with a .357 Magnum load in a snubbie is not only possible, its easy.

I often hear that short barrels destroy the benefit of using magnum ammunition over .38 Special ammunition, but my own testing of bullet weights from 110 to 200 grains in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum has always showed a significant increase in velocity out of the snubbie SP101 when using Magnum ammunition instead of Special ammunition. Usually its at least 200 fps, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Recoil is subjective, so its hard to quantify, but while magnum ammunition does recoil more than special ammunition, I have not found the difference to be controllable vs. uncontrollable.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I'm just south of you in Utah. The worst I would expect to run into are black bears.

The little blackies we have here in UT can be dropped with pretty much any .357 ammo. The most recent attack about 10 days ago was stopped with a 45 ACP (less energy and penetration than .357)... and that bear was about 300 lbs.

For bigger animals, I would use heavy (158g or more), hard-cast bullets loaded warm enough to hit hard, but not too hot as to make a follow-up hard to align.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Those Remington/UMC 125gr JSP's are PLENTY of pop from a snubby. If you want to 'go heavy' I'd suggest a 158gr Federal Hydra-Shock.

I'm sure an SP-101 can handle the heavy loads from Buffalo Bore, etc but if YOU don't practice with them, you can't be sure of your point of impact compared to your 'normal' loads. And face it, those BB and Cor-Bon loads aren't cheap.

 

[dougwx12]

I've generally seen a 200+ fps increase from .38 Special +P to .357 Magnum in my testing of various bullet weights and loads in my 2 1/4" SP101. While my standard +P .38 158 grain is a max load according to the books (and running 825-850 fps) out of a snubbie, magnum loads nowhere near max easily make 1050fps, and could be pushed much faster with available data.

From a reloading perspective, I have no doubt that you're right. The BB load (and some from speer, but not for woods) are interesting in that they're optimized for shorter barrels, and offer similar power to magnums with supposedly less recoil/flash. They, and the LM/HE rifle rounds are playing with powders and blends that we don't have access to.

Though you're probably also right that it doesn't matter much in an sp-101. They're not exactly svelte, are they? I tend to try to get the same thing to work in my sp-101 as my scandium 3" 357, so recoil matters to me. And it's a revolver, so 20 rounds is enough carry ammo for... ever, basically, so cost isn't a big deal to me. A practice round that approximates the recoil or is worse, and who cares about flash, is usually easy to sub in at the range.

 

[Marvin KNox]

I have a Smith 340 M&P. (I also have a 640 which is a lot like your SP101.)

When I first got into snub J frames I got the 340 and that was all I had. I fired a butt load of .357 ammo through it. Among those fired were the hottest Double Tap rounds available. I put a lot of boxes of DT through the little 13 oz. gun with narry a problem.

The DT figures are for a 6" barrel. You're going to loose a couple of hundred fps or perhaps more in the snub IMO. Look at the Buffalo Bore site just to get an idea of different barrel lengths vs. velocity loss (out of his personal guns).

I'd recommend that 200 grain DT round. Heavy, hard as a brick, and loaded to the top of the case. DT's will be cheaper than Buffalo Bore also.

Actually, I wouldn't be too worried about price however. If you are shooting an attacking bear it will be short range. I shouldn't think that you'd even have to sight that round in to carry it. Might even be able to split a box with other .357 bear fighters and have your left overs still last through a few lifetimes of bear attacks.

The Ruger SP101 is built like a tank. If hot DT ammo did nothing to my little scandium 340 after at least half a dozen boxes, your Ruger is going to laugh at the stuff.

P.S. - you won't be worried about recoil or even gun damage if a bear has you at point blank range. (And that's the only range you should be shooting a bear with a snub .357 IMO.) Your life is worth more than a damaged gun or a stinging palm. You'll likely never shoot a bear in self defense. But if you do you'll want to be packing the best stuff you can get your hands on.

Heck, you'd probably be able to sell the story to some magazine for enough money to pay for a couple of new guns and a bunch of ammo - even after paying for a ghost writer.

 

[Landric]

From a reloading perspective, I have no doubt that you're right. The BB load (and some from speer, but not for woods) are interesting in that they're optimized for shorter barrels, and offer similar power to magnums with supposedly less recoil/flash. They, and the LM/HE rifle rounds are playing with powders and blends that we don't have access to.

Though you're probably also right that it doesn't matter much in an sp-101. They're not exactly svelte, are they? I tend to try to get the same thing to work in my sp-101 as my scandium 3" 357, so recoil matters to me. And it's a revolver, so 20 rounds is enough carry ammo for... ever, basically, so cost isn't a big deal to me. A practice round that approximates the recoil or is worse, and who cares about flash, is usually easy to sub in at the range.

I can see the difference in a 340, I had a 342PD for a while, and it was unpleasant with .38 Special. I have no desire to abuse myself firing full power magnums in a gun that light (though if I had one, I would probably carry magnums in it, otherwise why have it right?).

I'm probably a little biased when it comes to handloaded ammunition anyway. I never shoot factory ammunition in most of my revolvers, with the exception of testing some to get a baseline. For ammunition like that in this discussion I would always look to handloads to meet the need, and tailor them specifically to meet my needs in a snubbie.

I a fan of 170 grain + bullets in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum, and given that factory options are extremely limited, not to mention expensive. Factory ammunition, generally loaded to perform all tasks reasonably well, isn't generally stellar at meeting a specific need. I suspect you are probably correct when it comes factory ammunition performance.

 

[altez]

What about the Hornady LeverEvolution .357?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Also IMO using a 180gr bullet in a short revolver might be a problem because the excessive recoil because of the heavy bullet will pull you off target making a follow up shot difficult.

I have not found that to be the case. Have you shot much of it out of snub? It really isn't as bad as you would expect. If I have time tomorrow I'll do a demonstration vid with the speed six.

I have shot a bunch of 180gr .357 Magnums from my M640 but they weren't factory ammo, they were my reloads. I loaded them for a 4" M686 and my Carbine so they were on the hot side. Cosmo, your Speed-Six is more in line with the S&W M65 and a bit heavier than a SP101 so it's really not a fair test for the SP101 IMO. A 2.75" Speed-Six weighs ~33oz whereas a 2.25" Sp101 weighs 25oz. That's not a huge difference but enough to make a difference.

 

[fxstchewy]

Double Tap 158g gets my vote, but beware they recoiled worse than other loads i tried in my SP101 and actually made my trigger finger bleed! i still haven't found what cut my finger.........

 

[Cosmoline]

Cosmo, your Speed-Six is more in line with the S&W M65 and a bit heavier than a SP101 so it's really not a fair test for the SP101 IMO.

I used to shoot the 180 and 200 grain bear loads out of my SP before I switched to the Speed. Recoil is highly subjective. The OP should get an array of 158 to 180 grain loads and try them out. I actually find the 180's are more rolling and less snappy than the lighter rounds, so it's easier to come back to the sight picture.