"Spain to Iraq" and "All the world as a battlefield"

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hillbilly

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Of course, this is not really a "world war."

Don't listen to what the jihadists themselves say.

Instead listen to the "very smart" commentators and pundits who, of course, know a lot better what this is all about, better even than the poor, down-trodden, ignorant jihadists themselves.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_al_qaida_13


Al-Qaida calls for holy war against Israel By WILLA THAYER, Associated Press Writer
38 minutes ago



CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call in a new videotape released Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq."



In the message broadcast by Al-Jazeera television, Ayman al-Zawahri, second in command to Osama bin Laden, said that al-Qaida now views "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us."

The Egyptian-born physician said that the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Palestinian militants would not be ended with "cease-fires or agreements."

"It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere." Spain was controlled by Arab Muslims until they were driven from power at the turn of the 16th century.

He also said that Arab regimes were complicit in Israeli fighting against Hezbollah and the Palestinians. "My fellow Muslims, it is obvious that Arab and Islamic governments are not only impotent but also complicit ... and you are alone on the battlefield. Rely on God and fight your enemies ... make yourselves martyrs."

Al-Zawahri wore a gray robe and white turban in the video. A picture of the burning World Trade Center was on the wall behind him along with photos of two other militants. One appeared to be a bearded Mohammed Atta, the Egyptian ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks. The other was Mohammed Atef, also known as Abu Hafs al-Masri, a former top lieutenant of bin Laden who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001.

The Arab satellite station did not transmit the entire tape, using instead selected quotes interspersed with commentary from an anchor.

An Al-Jazeera official speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters said the full tape was about eight mintues long. The satellite channel aired only about half the message. It would not say how it received the tape.

"The shells and rockets ripping apart Muslim bodies in Gaza and Lebanon are not only Israeli (weapons), but are supplied by all the countries of the crusader coalition. Therefore, every participant in the crime will pay the price," al-Zawahri said.

"We cannot just watch these shells as they burn our brothers in Gaza and Lebanon and stand by idly, humiliated," he added.

The message was al-Zawahri's tenth this year. Bin Laden has issued five messages in a particularly active year of messages from the top al-Qaida leadership.

Al-Zawahri last appeared in a video posted on an Islamic Web site on the one-year anniversary of the train bombings in London. In the July 7 tape, he said two of the four suicide bombers in London had spent time in an al-Qaida training camp, preparing themselves for a suicide mission.

The two top al-Qaida leaders also paid tribute in June to the slain leader of their Iraq network, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in separate recordings. Many of their messages this year have dealt with current events in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia.

Another new audio or video message from bin Laden had also expected in the past week on the fighting in Gaza and Lebanon, according to IntelCenter, a U.S.-based independent group that provides counterterrorism information to the U.S. government and media. However, no messages have appeared on Islamic Web sites to announce the release.

Al-Qaida's media production wing, Al-Sahab, had announced the al-Zawahri tape would be ready soon in a message earlier Thursday on an Islamic Web site.

Al-Zawahri said Muslims everywhere must rise up to attack "crusaders and Zionists" and support jihad (holy war) "until American troops are chased from Afghanistan and Iraq, paralyzed and impotent ... having paid the price for aggression against Muslims and support for Israel."

Israel began an offensive on Gaza days after Palestinian militants captured an Israeli soldier on June 25. It opened a second front in Lebanon after Hezbollah guerillas killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two others on July 12.

Since fighting began between Israel and Hezbollah, at least 424 people have been killed in Lebanon, according to figures compiled from the Lebanese Health Ministry, the military and Hezbollah. Fifty-one Israelis have been killed, including 33 members of the military, according to Israeli authorities.
 
Oh, come now, hill, Spain to Iraq is not "the world.":evil:

Haven't we grown beyond the need for such petty misunderstandings? What we really need is to hold hands and understand that their war is based on something we did, or, George Bush did. Don't you feel enlightened by hating yourself, hill?:D
 
And you HONESTLY believe a bunch of guys living in caves have the power to conquer all the land spanning between Spain and Iraq? Gimme a break. Al-Qaeda isnt the second coming of the Third Reich. No, this is not a "World War" .. Not even close.. More like a giant global police action.
 
Where's Charles Martel when you need him?

Anybody think they're the reincarnated "Hammer"? If so, we need you!

The more these radicals yap about global conquest, the more I'm convinced my next tattoo is going to be a Jerusalem Cross. Incidentally, both my mothers and fathers family had a part in the crusades. Battle at Acre on Mom's side, Constantinople on Dad's. Maybe time to re-connect with my roots? :cuss:

Crazed ss, who'd have thought that the killing of ONE MAN would touch off a world war? Remember the ArchDuke Ferdinand? Small movements have a way of snowballing. We've been watching the snowball for thirty years. Now we're in it's path.
 
El Tejon.....You may ask me how I know? I know for Michael Moore tells me so!:D


Crazed_ss, on the one hand, your handle makes me wonder just how acquainted your are with the Third Reich.

But on the other hand, it really doesn't matter what us in the West think.

The jihadists, based on their recent history of bombings and beheadings and hijackings on at least four continents (that I can think of) apparently DO THINK they can, by the will of Allah, take over the world from Spain to Iraq, and then work on the rest of the world after that.

If a bunch of crazies who are willing to die for their cause actually believe they can accomplish it, then, as we say down here in Arkansas, you got yourself a bit of a problem there, Bubba........

hillbilly
 
Where's Charles Martel when you need him?
Anybody think they're the reincarnated "Hammer"? If so, we need you!
Interesting trivia I learned yesterday. Saladin, leader of the forces opposing Richard II during the Crusades, was an Iraqi Kurd from Tikrit, according to NPR.
 
Crazed_ss, on the one hand, your handle makes me wonder just how acquainted your are with the Third Reich.

lol.. I get that a lot.
I drive a Camaro, http://www.myspace.com/2kss :)

The jihadists, based on their recent history of bombings and beheadings and hijackings on at least four continents (that I can think of) apparently DO THINK they can, by the will of Allah, take over the world from Spain to Iraq, and then work on the rest of the world after that.

They can think all they want. I bet the Klan still thinks the South should be segregated. Doesnt meant it's gonna happen anytime soon.

Al Qaeda can blow stuff up here and there or wherever, but all that does is incite terror. That's why they're called terrorists. They have no standing army. They have no power conquer anyone or and force them to convert to Islam.
 
This is just my first thought and I'm probably going to get flamed for it, but in-between Spain an Iraq, isn’t there a pensulia (sp) called Italy. Hasn’t Roman-Catholic ruled there sense forever?
 
Chech out the Philipines.

There are entire areas of P.I. that are unsafe if you are not a muslim. P.I. is predominantly Roman Catholic, yet many are forced to either "convert" or leave, due to intimidation.

They (the radicals) have already conquered several nations. Syria is nuts, Iran is getting that way, Afghanistan is up in the air, Iraq could go either way, but it doesn't look good, Saudi Arabia is a speak-nice-but-we're-sharia-all-the-way country, the UAE is built on tribal loyalty (read: old grudges and alliances), Lebannon is on the fence right now and likely swinging toward the radicals, given the current situation.

The conquest isn't about large scale military operations, it's about small regions and establishing pockets of radical islam.

BYW, I'm a gearhead and the first thing I thought of was a Monte Carlo. :D
 
It is the start of World War 4.

The players are going to be Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and all the other fanatical muslim nations vs US, Israel, India and maybe the UK. The rest of the world is too politically correct to get involved.

I say clean their clocks and send them back to the 15th century where they belong.
 
It's hard to leave China and Russia out of that equation. They both have a vested interest in Iran.

Biker
 
It Boggles The

Mind if you really stop and look at all the Countries, regions, cities, hemispheres, islands, neighborhoods and households where you can find Islamic-extremism. If you don't believe that we are in a non-conventional war that is as complex as it is confounding, then you have your head far under the sand as far as I am concerned.
 
crazed ss (bracketed corrections by jfruser) said:
And you HONESTLY believe a bunch of guys living in [the desert] have the power to conquer all the land spanning between Spain and [India]?
Well, something similar has happened before.

It occurred because:
1. Renewed religious fanaticism with an expansionist bent.
2. Their opponents (Byzantium, Iberian Visigoths, and the Persians) did not take them seriously and their civilizations had gotten soft & somewhat rotten on the inside.

It took Islam 100 years to go from diddling camels in Nowheresville, Arabia, to conquering the Iberian peninsula, all N Africa, all the middle east, S Europe butting up against the Austrian Empire, across Persia all the way to India.

Ignore the threat today & tomorrow your (grand)children will pray on their knees facing Mecca or where the mark of the dhimmi.

They are playing for keeps. Are we?
 
Spain to Iraq

I doubt that Egypt would get involved in a war action against Isreal. Isreal a long time ago informed Egypt that any movement or open support of Isreal's enemies by Egypt and Isreal would attack and destroy Egypt's Asswan High Dam,and if that goes Egypts Economy drops back to the stone age. In fact Egypt is very active in stopping terrorist groups in country.
 
Roadwild17 said:
This is just my first thought and I'm probably going to get flamed for it, but in-between Spain an Iraq, isn’t there a pensulia (sp) called Italy. Hasn’t Roman-Catholic ruled there sense forever?

Rome was the controlling political and religious power for most of Europe, but their military strength varied greatly depending on who was in power. The rest of Italy was made up of small nation-state who usually only had enough arms to defend themselves from each other.

However a little ways East of Italy is a country called Romania, and IIRC the last time a muslim army tried to march through there they were met with a whole bunch of steaks (and I'm not talking about beef):eek:
 
It's hard to leave China and Russia out of that equation. They both have a vested interest in Iran.

+1. However, most Americans forget about them because of the whole
"we-won-the-coldwar-and-are-the-sole-superpower" chirping that continues.
The Chicom and the Former Soviets are just sitting back as America burns
itself out by running one too many marathons around the world. For Russia,
the oil prize is a VERY short sprint. China doesn't have to use military force,
rather they can provide goods, ie, leverage as the usual counterbalance,
followed by fianances, then lastly by military might.

The Chinese have been playing the war and dynasty game far longer than
the West. They could economically squash us like a grape right now, but
that is not in *their* interest....right now.

We should have mobilized, as a nation, after 9/11. Way too many Americans are either in denial or deceiving themselves with pabulum.

And ask Americans to change their lifestyle? Enforce rationing and actually
make people contribute in some way toward a community effort like my
grandparents did? Rather than fighting another crusade to liberate oil
(rather than trade routes, er, religious sites) from jihadi thugs, let's re-think
how we live and utilize our energy. Take our money out of foreign lands and
start to localize before it's too late. The Chinese and the Russians aren't
going to waste the last reserve of the world's oil supply to come get us
--they have too large of an area in Eurasia to handle in the first place.

Let them have the Middle East cr@phole and all the problems that come
with it --that have come with it for over a millenia! America's founding
fathers wanted us to focus on everything from "sea to shining sea" within
our own borders rather than worry more about everything between Spain
and Iraq......let the Euros pony up for their own friggin backyard.
 
Falling back on ourselves isn't as simple as it used to be. We are definitely NOT energy-self-sufficient. We have to be realistic about that. Even now I don't see any full-out effort to reach that goal. It is now five years since 9/11; with a crash program we could have been half-way, maybe, toward a huge array of nuclear reactors to provide at least some of the energy we require for everyday use. I just see the country stalled on the energy front, acting as if it's "situation normal" and we have all the time in the world. That has to change, somehow.

And this is not the America of 1960. "Ourselves" ain't what we used to be. We have two generations of Americans who have confused the pursuit of happiness with the pursuit of pleasure and think reality is the real enemy. Multiculturalism has frayed the national consensus of values. Meanwhile, the Middle East is a nightmare, Eurabia is slipping away, Russia and China aren't really friends, North Korea and Iran are mortal dangers, and Latin America is rumbling. Houston, we have a problem. Unless we get clear about who we are and what we are defending and then marshall all of our moral and physical resources to fight the good fight, we are heading for Darkness. To mobilize does not mean giving up our standard of living entirely, it does mean getting our house in order, on all levels, while we still have time.
 
Both the Russians and the Chinese have radical Islamists to deal with both within thier borders and native to their polities and in territories directly contiguous with their borders.

They are going to have a very difficult time playing geopolitical games.

Syria is nuts,

The Assads have killed more Islamic extremists than anyone else by a long chalk. It is very dangerous to be an Islamic fundamentalist in Syria if not totally controlled by the Syrian government.

The Syrians have no problems using extremists to further Syrian interests but fundamentalists in Syria don't make noises about Arab governments like the recent Al Quada statement...not and live.

Al Quada members in Syria are either totally covert, totally obedient to the Syrian government, or totally dead.
 
The Chinese have been playing the war and dynasty game far longer than the West. They could economically squash us like a grape right now

Considering our economy is 6 times the size of theirs, I don't think so. All they could really do is make Wal-Mart go out of businesses, and then the price of oil drops because the Chinese economy tanks. (Though the situation may change in the future.)

Enforce rationing and actually make people contribute in some way toward a community effort like my grandparents did?

What, you what permanent WWII-style rationing forever? A free market has made us the richest country in the world. Don't mess with it. Also, longeyes, the pursuit of happiness is the pursuit of pleasure, among other things.

America's founding fathers wanted us to focus on everything from "sea to shining sea" within our own borders rather than worry more about everything between Spain
and Iraq......let the Euros pony up for their own friggin backyard.

The founding fathers might not have believed that if ICBMs had been around in the 1700s. If you think America is selfish, Europe is much worse, and won't pony up for their own backyard until until it's too late, and it would cost more to save their behinds again.

I wish we could just ignore the rest of the world like a giant Switzerland, but I think it is too dangerous. For example, bin Laden says he attacked us because we were in Saudi for Desert Shield/Storm. But I think that is just an excuse. And what if the Middle-East nukes itself to hell, then we have no oil to run our economy. More nuclear reactors would help, but I don't think they would help that much.
 
Also, long eyes, the pursuit of happiness is the pursuit of pleasure, among other things.

Sorry, it's not. Happiness implies a much more robust and ample view of the human condition. This is precisely where we have gotten ourselves into trouble, by trivializing the vision of the Founding Fathers. Perhaps from the vantage point of San Francisco, this is nettlesome.

Collective action is not about rationing per se, it is about recognizing a general need for national security and a responsibililty to contribute to that. It doesn't mean abandoning capitalism, which we somehow managed to keep going despite our WW II war effort.

We're the richest country in the world--and the most in hock. Producing wealth is only one component; the other is not outspending your productivity. Too many Americans are pursuing pleasure with money they don't have.

Switzerland doesn't ignore the rest of the world, it launders it.
 
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