'Speak English! This is America!' Brawl Follows.

[pete f]

Have you ever sat at a table in a restaurant and had the help talk as if you were not there in their native tongue?

To me, as a business owner, I demand that all my workers speak english on the job. If they must speak to a family member on the phone it is outside. I currently do not have any non bi-lingual non english speakers working for me, but I have had several. I have found that they are very difficult to deal with. It is human nature to talk behind the backs of others when the possiblity is there with a second language.

When I had hired some hmong workers to do painting and varnishing, I had them work first at a friends house who was fluent in both Hmong and Vietnamese as well as chinese, (having been raised in china and cambodia as the son of a missionary). He waited till they had finished working on the house, and then as i went over the job, he let the workers know that he knew all a bout the spot on the carper by the window etc that they had talked about behind his back, thinking he would not understand. The workers were shocked and really humilated, I kept them working for a time but decided for other reasons to let them go.

I also had some spanish speakers in my shop for a while. After hearing a lot of the conversation that went on with them thinking I was not able to understand the conversation, I dismissed them too. A one language shop is a shop where every one has to communicate, people are not hiding behind the shield of non understood conversations.

Should this fight have happened?? no it should not, but should the business owner have allowed the conversations between employees go on? A bigger no! Certainly if the receptions was answer a phone call from a spanish customer, or a spanish customer in the chair talking to the beautician. But staff using spanish as a shield to hide conversation from customers, no way.

 

[coylh]

People that speak multiple languages are smarter.

 

[Psssniper]

Let me get this straight, someone from boston was insisting that someone speak proper english??

 

[Byron Quick]

Oleg,

Those aren't my concerns. My concerns have nothing to do with whether I overhear someone engaging in a conversation in a foreign language.

I AM very concerned about a person who moves to this country and makes no effort to learn the language. To assimilate the culture.

Tell me. What type of situation would you be caught in if you were living here in the US but spoke only Russian? Socially? Financially? Personally?

You would not have achieved what you have achieved in my facets of your life. You would not be a citizen. You would be less than you could have been.

The Mexicans who refuse to learn English even though they live here are condemning themselves to limited opportunities in the land of opportunity.

I am suspicious of people who take positions-supposedly on principle-which encourages Mexican immigrants to remain ignorant of English and to remain together in barrios. Why am I suspicous of their motives? Because such encouragement-while couched in terms of cloyingly liberal feel good crap-results in a dimunition of opportunites and an increase in targets for discrimination.

 

[280PLUS]

I am suspicious of people who take positions-supposedly on principle-which encourages Mexican immigrants to remain ignorant of English and to remain together in barrios.

I know that is certainly not my position. But I'll toss the coin and say I am "disheartened" by those who will not meet others at least part of the way and maybe try to pick up a few words of these foreign languages. I learned a new Polish word the other day. It is the #1 word guaranteed to get you your face slapped by any Polish woman. Pretty useful stuff.

 

[XLMiguel]

Although I think being bi-/multi-ligual is a good thing, one of the annoying aspects I have experienced is the "English-of-convenience" - the situation where someone who obviously speaks and understands English plays dumb ("no habla Anglais . . . " ) so they don't have to do something. I've been known to play along and say something sufficiently insulting or inflamatory to get them to blow their cover. Then the real fun begins . . .

One of my good friends is a big ol' Moroccan guy. In addition to English, he also speaks Arabic, Moroccan, Spanish, and French. Again, real fun when a couple of dufusses are saying derogatory stuff about you in their own language when they think no one understands, and he turns and returns the insult in their own tongue. The look on their faces - pricelss!

 

[longeyes]

Quote:
by longeyes, The fight's not about language, it's about IDENTITY and POWER.
That's how it started, but if that's the way you see it that's fine with me.

This would not be an issue if a) Americans didn't feel invaded by Mexico and b) betrayed by their own Government. "Identity" means we all share the same values and can trust each other. That can't happen when illegal aliens are telling us, "Hey, this is really Mexico, it's ours, we have every right to be here--and YOU'RE the invaders!" It can't happen when the U.S. Government, existing on our dime, tells us we must be "a welcoming nation" regardless of the fiscal, social, and cultural cost to those who have built American polity.

 

[ApexinM3]

Out of respect, one should learn the native tounge of the country in which they are residents to. I have absolutely no problem with someone speaking their native tounge in their own homes, but here in the USA, we speak English as the common language. If your are visiting, say, Germany, it would be wise to at least learn a few words so as not to insult the locals. I know this for a fact as I watched it happen.

Biker has a very valid point about not knowing your surroundings due to foreign languages being spoken in your home area, which coincides with the above point. I, too, would feel uneasy, but living in MD I also can't carry, either.:banghead:

As for the young lady going berserk on the other for speaking Spanish & then beating her "accidently" with her shoe. That was uncalled for & yes, I think folks are hot under the collar because of the present situation.

Something tells me there was some details left out of the report, so I won't pass judgement on it until I know more about it.

 

[YellowLab]

Common curtesy dictates that you not speak in a foriegn tongue unless all people in the room can. It alleviates the uncertainity if its an actual conversation, or a slam fest about the fat person eating yodels.

Ignore all the spelling errors...

 

[BryanP]

Common curtesy dictates that you not speak in a foriegn tongue unless all people in the room can. It alleviates the uncertainity if its an actual conversation, or a slam fest about the fat person eating yodels.

So if you're visiting a foreign country where you are unable to speak the native language you will remain silent for your visit?

 

[foghornl]

In 1983 or so, while working in Houston, there were a couple of women that also worked there, originally from Viet Nam.

They were in the lunchroom, chatting away in their "Native Language", whatever that is (Sorry, not up on the various dialects of that part of the world).

One of them told what had to be a very personal, or perhaps "somewhat indecent" story, because they both sort of smirked and giggled.

I just smiled very broadly and said "Great story, ladies. Do you have anymore?"



Silence Of The Tombs for the rest of the hour....

 

[ApexinM3]

OffThePaper, You pretty much hit it squarely. My Ex used to work at a hair salon, and from time to time I'd stop in to say hello. To say that hair salons are as hostile is a gross understatement. A bunch of vain, conceted, holier-than-thou's all under one roof. Backstabbing, cat-fighting, petty arguments abound. And that was on a good day. Like I said before, my guess is there is a little more to this story than either woman is fessing up to.

 

[Low-Sci]

"Common curtesy dictates that you not speak in a foriegn tongue unless all people in the room can. It alleviates the uncertainity if its an actual conversation, or a slam fest about the fat person eating yodels."

Actually, you are never under any obligation to be sure that perfect strangers understand what you are saying in a private discussion. Common courtesy would actually dictate that if you're listening to a private conversation between two strangers, you butt the hell out. I don't see why you need to be listening in on other people's conversations no matter what language they're in.

I'm sure you all object to the idea of government tapping phone calls and listening in on conversations of ordinary citizens, its a violation of privacy. So don't turn around and expect to justify your own violations of other people's privacy on the grounds of courtesy.

You can try to trample on the first amendment all day long by saying people shouldn't speak non-english languages, that they shouldn't do it in public, and it all amounts to a pile of rat turds at the end of the day. The bottom line when it comes to private expression protected under the first amendment is this: If you don't like it, DON'T LISTEN.

 

[Sindawe]

[QUOTE If you don't like it, DON'T LISTEN.][/QUOTE]Public expression is also protected. How about you tell that to the counter-protesters at this little march held not too long ago.

http://media.putfile.com/Double-Standards--Racism

 

[Glock Glockler]

Many people here are threatened by the browning of America

Why is it I have never heard people getting upset with immigrants from India? They are generally brown, some are even extremmely dark, so why not the bad reaction?

 

[El Barto]

I have said this before.

I have been literally, all over the world. From the UK, to the Persian Gulf to a tour around various parts of Asia (thanks to the USN). I enjoy getting out and experiencing different cultures so I like to go outside of the usual tourist and military haunts. In doing so, I have met people that would not normally interact with Americans. In fact, one of my fondest memories is talking with a nice shuttle driver and sharing a cup of hot tea with him during a trip to one of the UAE states.

The only place I have ever had trouble using English is in Southern California. I usually let the Mrs. conduct business for me so that it gets done correctly.

 

[Sindawe]

They are generally brown, some are even extremmely dark, so why not the bad reaction?

Could it be that folks from India are not marching in the streets demanding amnesty for their illegal brethren? Could it be that folks from India are not claiming that the Southwest is STILL INDIA? Could it be that the majority of folks from India come here to become part of America, rather than convert America to India? Could it be that folks from India do not demand that WE adapt to THEM and learn their language, but work to learn ours?

Naaaa... not a chance. Those of us opposed to illegal aliens just hate Mexicans and other people from south of the border. :banghead:

 

[Camp David]

Many people here are threatened by the browning of America

I believe this is the wrong assessment and it is factually incorrect. "Most people here" simply want two things: (1) assimilation of all new residents of the nation into that culture American and its attendant English language, and (2) use of that language as the priori communication tool. Nobody is "threatened" by color of residents; I live in a heavy Asian neighborhood of the nation yet these new citizens do their utmost to use English as the tool of society, particularly the young, despite their heavy accent. They understand the need to assimilate into a culture and respect it, with primary language of communication being foremost. The "browning of America" of which you speak has very little to do with the language discussion, particularly if you examine the Asian influence....

 

[Low-Sci]

Sindawe, that video makes a good point. The Coldplay song really drives the whole schlop home too.

PLEASE bear in mind that I'm not supporting or condoning illegal immigration, I am not siding with the counterprotesters in that video, whom you're right, need to learn to politely shut up and let people have their say.

But I will say that saying that the counterprotesters need to learn to not listen if it offends them is tantamount to a five-year-old fighting with her sibling and then saying "Yeah, but he did it first."

Just because someone else is doing it doesn't make it ok for you to do it too. Someone has to step up and be the bigger man in a situation like that. That shouldn't be a problem to a group of people who frequent a forum called the High Road.

 

[BFWE]

Who did what?

Vocal provocation is never an affirmative defense to assault another person.

Regardless of how rude a person is... the Spanish speakers were WRONG to physically assault the other people.

My point/question is -- is this indicative of the behavior of ILLEGAL aliens who originate in Mexico or is this quickness to physical altercation an isolated incident. Living here is Dallas, Texas and having a policing background I can attest that the Illegals in the topic report are typical of Illegals.

As a group -- they are dangerous.

 

[longeyes]

Many people here are threatened by the browning of America

No.

The clowning of America (our loss of representative government).

And the drowning of America (too much illegal immigration).

 

[Low-Sci]

BWFE, I'm not saying it was. I'm still think that the whole thing was stupid, and to the extent that the physical altercation goes, I'm not taking a side. I'm only explaining what I believe to be true as far as the whole language thing that everyone has their panties in a twist about.

As far as the rest of your post goes, it seems like your question as to the nature of illegal aliens is largely rhetorical, as you already seem to have made up your mind that "as a group, they are dangerous."

I would sincerely doubt that out of the 12 million illegal aliens currently residing in the US, that the vast majority of them are easily provoked to violence.

I also think that taking two obviously crazy women and holding it up as typical behavior that represents the entire mexican community is pretty significantly unfair. I don't think it makes things any more fair to take a handful of arrest reports and do the same thing, as the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

To accurately answer your rhetorical question, we would need to balance the incidences of verbally provoked assault against the total population of illegal immigrants residing in the US, then do the same thing for every other ethnic group in the US including whites. We can't rely on old cop stories and newspaper clippings.

 

[280PLUS]

FWIW

Just a venture that given the fact that the majority of the Spanish speaking population here in the Northeast is Puerto Rican, I'd feel comfortable saying those two were PROBABLY Puerto Rican which would make them both US citizens. You can't just go lumping all Hispanics under the term "Mexican". Along with the PR folks up here there are a healthy smattering of Peruvians, Ecuadorans, Guatemalans, Chileans, Portugese either directly from Portugal or indirectly from Brazil and , of course, Mexicans. I could continue my way through the rest of the globe starting with the rather large African (from Africa) community that has popped up here in Hartford, but I think you get the point.

Addendum...

I just don't see 2 illegal aliens pressing the issue of which language is proper. I see them quietly getting the "flock outta Dodge" at the first sign of trouble like that. Too much to lose.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Camp David,

I quoted crazed ss when I posted that, I don't agree with that sentiment but rather I brought it up to counter it with my example about immigrants from India.

 

[crazed_ss]

Why is it I have never heard people getting upset with immigrants from India? They are generally brown, some are even extremmely dark, so why not the bad reaction?

Because Indians arent the 2nd largest and fastest growing minority in the country?
Check out this story.. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/10/hispanics/

Census statistics also show that 45 percent of children under age 5 are from a racial or ethnic minority.

Their size is large enough that they can now effect the outcome of elections and such. They have billions of dollars worth of buying power and companies have no qualms about catering to them to make more money. This is why people here get angry about Hispanic peoples using Spanish or celebrating Cinco De Mayo and continue to rant about them not assimilating. They feel that that America is no longer gonna look like America anymore. But like I asked a few pages back.. what is American Culture? What does America look like?

The size and power of the Hispanic population represent a threat to the status quo. People are scared. Old women flipping out in beauty salons about someone speaking Spanish is simply a manefestation of this fear.