Special Taxes only on Guns and Ammunition

[RMc]

An interesting conflict of interest:

An NRA lobbyist... "argued against a new tax on ammunition. He said it would interfere with the 2nd Amendment right to own firearms."

http://www.bnd.com/2012/03/01/2080177/house-panel-approves-bills-on.html

Is there any argument the NRA could make against the constitutionality of this proposed special tax - without casting doubt on the constitutionality of Section 4181, (Pittman-Roberstson Act), Taxes?

 

[Owen Sparks]

Would a special tax on the 1A rights such as practicing your religion, publishing an opinion in the news papers or speaking your mind in public pass constitutional muster?

I think not.

Neither would a worship permit or free speech license.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Pittman-Robertson Act Taxes are earmarked to support wildlife and hunting (and by extension to give the government an interest maintaining ammo manufacture and sales).

The Illinois tax can be seen as a sin tax on all ammo buyers to pay for the bad acts of the few. I can recall inspecting street criminals' guns and finding the revolver cylinder or pistol magazine loaded with a mismatch of manufacturers, bullet styles, and vintage. If this passes, the people responsible for most gun violence will not be the ones paying for it.

Any bets that the tax would stay at 2% if the Chicago gun haters had their way? As the Supreme Court opined once, the power to tax is the power to destroy, and anti-gunners have proposed punitive taxes for decades.

 

[drsfmd]

Look up Chris Rock's standup about bullet taxes (given the restrictions on posting pictures, I assume we can't link to youtube either?). It explains volumes...

 

[MostlySurly]

I can't answer your question, RMc, but I understand where you're coming from. Too many hunters backing P-R to allow that to happen, I should think.

I will flatly state that I can't believe what goes on in some of our United States.
I knew there were problems in IL, but I really was shocked to read that article. The corruption and insanity is mind boggling.

 

[Ryanxia]

What MostlySurly said. Here here!

 

[Bubbles]

P-R also doesn't just target guns and ammo, but other hunting, fishing, and "sporting" equipment as well.

Given the NRA's stance on the tax in IL, they should also be opposed to the NFA 1934 transfer taxes.

 

[medalguy]

Federal courts just ruled that the new Texas law requiring photo ID when voting would cause a hardship on minorities because of the expense of $7 to get a DL or state issued ID card. Why can't we use the same argument against ammo and gun taxes? Lower socioeconomic groups surely can't stand to pay any more taxes, can they?

 

[Overkilll0084]

Taxes should only be to generate needed govt revenue.
Creating a new tax as behavior control is inherently unfair. I disagree w/ beer & liquor taxes as well as any other tax that is above and beyond the norm for any other "good" product.

new Texas law requiring photo ID when voting would cause a hardship on minorities because of the expense of $7 to get a DL or state issued ID card

I bet it's not a hardship when it's time to cash dem gubmint checks.

 

[saltydog452]

It seems to have worked on gasoline and tobacco. Lead shot bans are in effect for shotshells. Next up will be Haz-Mat clean up taxes/fees on ranges.

The camel has its nose under the tent.

salty

 

[Owen Sparks]

How about special taxes on Bibles and news papers?
Would that be constitutional? Why should special taxes on arms be any different?

 

[beatledog7]

Taxation was never meant to be used as behavior control, but as soon as the notion surfaced, politicians began using taxation to help reward their friends and punish their enemies.

Yet we keep electing them...

 

[RMc]

How about special taxes on Bibles and news papers?
Would that be constitutional? Why should special taxes on arms be any different?

Special taxes placed only on the press have already been ruled unconstitutional:

Minneapolis Star v Minnesota ,(1983), SCOTUS ruled that raw newsprint (paper) cannot be subject to any special taxes, regardless of how minimal the tax, without violating the the 1st Amendment's protection of the Press.

 

[LeonCarr]

The simple solution is to vote for someone other than the current POTUS in November.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Art Eatman]

Stay away from the politics...

Hunters strongly supported Pittman/Robinson and Dingell/Johnson as a direct benefit to us. Provides for research and protection of wildlife, with the money going to state wildlife agencies. The money is pro-rated by the number of licenses sold. If you're not a hunter, remember that until the 1980s most users of firearms were indeed hunters.

Transportation fuel taxes? There was once a trust fund intended solely for the construction and maintenance of federal highways. Abused as to use, yes, but still one of the few fair taxes we pay. Most states' fuel tax income is dedicated to roads. From the standpoint of today's costs of construction and maintenance, they are way too low.

But a special tax on firearms and ammunition is indeed a punitive tax, in this case blaming an inanimate object for the misbehavior of people. Worse, it penalizes the many for the sins of a very few.

 

[bushmaster1313]

I do not see the Blane element.

However, I think poll taxes are illegal and a special bullet tax should fall for the same reason.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The problem with democracy is that your well educated vote gets canceled out by some gimmie-gimmie who wants to get something "free" from the government.
If the majority elects a government that disreguards the Constitution it might as well not exist as it no longer applies and the social contract has been breeched.

 

[beatledog7]

Stay away from the politics...

Art,

THR has special forums for the Legal and Activism aspects of firearms and shooting. Since it is largely politics that drives both those categories of issues, how are we expected to explore them without mentioning anything political?

 

[Owen Sparks]

You may not be interested in politics, but politics may be VERY interested in your guns.

Your ability to own a gun is directly affected by the law
and the law is a direct result of politics. Gun control laws are just the symptom,
politics is the cause of bad gun laws.

"There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking the root"

_ Thereau

Strike the root!

 

[Art Eatman]

The Legal forum is for discussion of laws/regulations and court decisions which will or which have affected us as gun owners. The discussion is limited to the meaning of such, not the political considerations which will bring them about or have brought them about.

The Activism forum is for discussion of how to deal with laws or regulations from the standpoint of political needs and the utility of proposed efforts.

 

[Black Duck Charlie]

A "new" tax on ammunition in no way interferes with the right to own firearms. While ammunition is needed if you want to actually use a firearm, it is not needed to OWN the firearm. Not saying that I agree with the "new" tax, just that the wording used is faulty.

 

[Black Duck Charlie]

Do gas taxes keep anyone from owning a car? Do cigarette taxes keep anyone from smoking? Do any of the clothing taxes keep anyone from buying clothes? Any "new" tax on ammunition will not keep anyone from owning guns.

 

[beatledog7]

The discussion is limited to the meaning of such, not the political considerations which will bring them about or have brought them about.

The meaning of such and the politics that created such are not separate and cannot be force into separate matters; politicians ultimately control meaning.

Guess I'll just stay out of it.