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Speer 38spl 158 grain JSP data

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by stonebuster, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. stonebuster

    stonebuster Member

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    I was given some old 158gr JSP Speer bullets which I want to use for either light 357 loads or 38spl. Speer doesn't show that bullet in their 38spl data because I don't think they make them anymore for 38 although the old plastic box is marked 38. I'll be using HP-38 for the 38spl and wondering if I can use the same data as I do for fully jacketed bullets. I've not loaded JSP before as I've only been reloading 14 months.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  2. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Yes you can.
     
  3. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    38 on the box is caliber not the case. The bearing surface is jacketed so use jacketed data.
     
  4. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Speer quit publishing data on that bullet for a reason.
    At .38Spl pressures, even .38+P, it won’t reliably expand.
    Further, at less than +P pressures, it can stick in the bore creating a bore obstruction.
    Says so in my Speer manual!

    Use them to load .357magnum loads! Use any reliable 158gr JACKETED bullet data.

    I had some Speer/Lawman 158gr +P .38spl I bought to carry in my duty revolver many years ago. My Department required we carry “Factory” loaded ammo.
    I chrono’d the ammo (after I acquired a chrono) at 585fps from my Charter Arms 2” UnderCover. Switched over to 158gr Lead HP-SWC +P (FBI load).

    Retired, I now carry 148gr PC wadcutters that chrono 800fps... (when I carry a .38Spl.).
    +P 125gr JHP’s only get 875-900fps, and don’t expand either.
    I load those over 20gr of H110. (.357magnum, of course!). Those DO expand, but also double for “flash-bang” grenades...
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  5. stonebuster

    stonebuster Member

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    I'll use them for loading 357 given the advise here. Thanks for the advice!
     
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  6. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    SPEER doesn't "like" any FMJ bullet in 158 grain for 38 special.
    They recommend their lighter bullets.
     
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  7. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    That must make me a cave man shooting 180s out of a 38 case. Trying to make a 38 directly compete with a 9mm is the game the industry plays and it makes zero sense to me.
     
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  8. barnfrog

    barnfrog Member

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    Not trying to pick nits, but the OP's question was about a soft point bullet, not FMJ. Do you mean they don't recommend any jacketed bullet? Curious because I have some Hornady 158 gr JSP I'm trying to decide what to do with. Sounds like .357 mag is the way to go.
     
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  9. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    SPEER doesn’t recommend ANY jacketed bullet over 125gr for .38spl or +P.
    They more recently came out with a 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot HP bullet (plated bullet with punched hp). But No JHP or JSP data.

    The XTP is a slightly different animal in that Hornady claims it will expand at 700fps. IMHO, MAYBE... The 158 FP-XTP 1,150fps-1,800.

    I suggest if planning to load self defense loads in .38spl with an eye to getting expansion, use a 158gr lead SWC-HP. They are proven to work.

    I’ve got the remnant of 2,000 Remington 158gr JSP’s I bought in ‘03 for about $5/100. They’ve been superlative in heavy .357mag and full velocity .35Rem (2,500fps!) 17.8gr of Hodgdons Lil’Gun will give 2,100fps from a M94 Winchester 20” .357mag. (It’ll eat out the throat/forcing cone of a revolver however). That’s where those 158gr Speers would excell!

    Though I recommend the 180gr XTP at starting levels if interested in shooting edible game (smallish pigs, deer). -.35Rem).
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  10. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    Yeah, I have Remington.357 JSP and the box says they are running at 1250 fps. It’s the defensive load I use in my 4 inch Model 28.
     
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  11. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    ACJ1; no, not a cave man, just a Victorian era “holdover”.... (not necessarily bad!).
    The .38s&w (small letters not to confuse with longer, more powerful.38SPL) use a 200gr bullet at ~600fps (as did the British MkVI), and later 178gr FMJ. Allegedly the Germans complained about the wounds inflicted by the 200gr lead RN. (But so did the French about the 123gr RWS FN FMJ 9mm load). Germans changed to 123gr RN!
    Both due to Hague Convention on in-humane injuries in warfare.
    I suggest a SWC as originally designed by Elmer Keith. The momentum of the heavier bullet insures penetration; a full caliber cutting surface, large wounds; long bullet for twist rate yields bullet yaw for cavitation for good permanent wound cavity. Plus, a cast lead bullet at equal pressures will yield 50-100fps greater m/v. The “old timers” were on to something!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  12. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    LoneViking;
    I carried that load while a l.E. Officer, only the 158gr JHP with the scalloped jacket! And indeed, they turn out 1,250fps +/- from a 4” bbl.
    And indeed! They DO expand.
    I later switched to Ga Arms “Deer Slayers” which DO achieve 1,500+FPS from a 4” 686! Eventually later, I convinced the department when they started issuing ammunition to issue the 145gr Winchester SilverTip (flash suppressed) @1,350fps+/-.
     
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  13. barnfrog

    barnfrog Member

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    Thanks. I probably should have responded to you instead of Rule3, since my concern was more about the possible barrel obstruction. I have 300 XTPs waiting in the wings, but thought I would burn up these older bullets first.
     
  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    But it is amazing that other sources, ACCURATE can post data for 158 jacketed bullets, (full , or HP):uhoh:

    There are lots of Factory ammo 38 special FMJ anni being made. Some reason Speer doesn't want to. They just want to sell their lighter weight bullets.

    ARMFAC3817N-2__38834__17300.1577767688.jpg

    79mk3eJSLKcQokfjv7nr.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  15. daverich4

    daverich4 Member

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    Speer used to list loads for a 38 Special 146 Gr JHP up through Manual #14 however it’s no longer listed in #15. Hornady and Nosler list numerous 158 Gr Jacketed 38 Special loads in their current manuals. Not sure why the three companies take such different approaches.
     
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  16. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    79mk3eJSLKcQokfjv7nr.jpg
     
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  17. Zendude

    Zendude Member

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    Different lawyers?
     
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  18. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    If you own a chronograph, you’ll understand why!
    I watch folks shoot those at the public range I frequent.
    You can watch the bullets in flight at even 7yds!
    I’ve seen some chrono at under 500fps from a 1-7/8” bbl!.
     
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  19. ballman6711

    ballman6711 Member

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    I have some Sierra 158gr JSP. Sierra's 6th edition has 38SPCL data, as well as +P and 357mag if you want it. I think their app was free to download as well.

    chris
     
  20. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I watched a guy stick just the jacket of a Speer 158 gr JSP through loading it too lightly.
    We did not realize what happened because we saw the core hit the target, ear protection disguised the funny report.
    So naturally he fired again, pushing the jacket all the way to the target and ring bulging his barrel. S&W did not charge much to replace it and he was soon back in action.
     
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  22. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Some how Nosler gets 6-800 fps in 38 special 158 gr. Granted it is a 7.75" barrel so knock a little off for shorter barrels.
    I doubt that a 158 gr bullet will get stuck in a 2" snubby

    https://www.nosler.com/38-special
     
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  23. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Time to step up to a true 200-grainer. :D
    Rossi and 200grainers.jpg
    Rossi 3" bobbed hammer J-Frame .38Spl with CP 200gr. LWFN-GC over 2.8gr. of Bullseye. Hits like a brick through a plate-glass window. :thumbup:
     
  24. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Repercussions and reverberations of "The Super-Vel Effect"?
     
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  25. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    Cool article. Seems like that era was all about speed. 220 swift, like wow. I guess a few decades later pistols needed the same treatment
     
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