Spreader Load for Home Defense

[Jim Watson]

The thread on HD 870s and the question on the "horizontal choke" got me to thinking.

True, it is modern doctrine that

Today, aimed shotgun fire with a closely controlled tight pattern is deemed the most desirable for any shotgun engagement.
When it's time to shoot?
It's time to put all the charge in the target,

But why?
I understand the liability of sprinkling the neighborhood with buckshot if you are engaging a criminal in the open with your patrol car's shotgun, but that is not my situation. I would be defending from a fixed position, probably in low light. I would like to be able to sweep a doorway from down the hall. Actual scattershot would be beneficial.

I know there are spreader loads with birdshot, I once loaded them for the first bird on Trap doubles out of an IM barrel. I think there would be a place for a spreader load of buckshot for home or business defense.

If I am to be equipped with a tight choke and buffered shot such that I must take close aim, I would do better to arm myself with a carbine of some sort with more shots and less recoil.

 

[Uniquedot]

Today, aimed shotgun fire with a closely controlled tight pattern is deemed the most desirable for any shotgun engagement.
When it's time to shoot?
It's time to put all the charge in the target,
But why?

Because that was the sales pitch federal used to promote their flitecontrol loads.

 

[Ron James]

Deleted.

 

[19-3Ben]

For what it's worth, that was my opinion as well. I just used regular old Remington Express 00 Buck and call it a day with that. i know it spreads at just at just about the "normal" one inch per yard rule, which means that at 5 yards i'm getting ~5" group. Works for me. The point of the shotgun is to give me some margin for error. Otherwise, i'd just have a rifle and call it good. I do still have to aim it, as it's not just going to sweep a hallway. But i get more leeway than I would with a very tight pattern.

 

[ugaarguy]

But why?
I understand the liability of sprinkling the neighborhood with buckshot if you are engaging a criminal in the open with your patrol car's shotgun, but that is not my situation. I would be defending from a fixed position, probably in low light. I would like to be able to sweep a doorway from down the hall. Actual scattershot would be beneficial.

Would you choose to defend yourself with a .32 ACP pistol firing lead round nose bullets? Because that's what a single pellet of 00 buck is equivalent to. The primary benefit of buckshot is having all of those 32 caliber lead balls arrive at once.

If you want spread use any brand's economy buck shot offering that use plain unplated lead shot, cheap wads, and typically isn't buffered. Run said loads through a shotgun with cylinder bore or IC choked 18.5" bbl. The cheap S&B translucent shell 12 ga buckshot run through 18.5" fixed cyl bore bbls on Mossberg 500s and Remington 870Ps has produced very wide short range spread for me in past testing.

If I am to be equipped with a tight choke and buffered shot such that I must take close aim, I would do better to arm myself with a carbine of some sort with more shots and less recoil.

Tight choke or loose choke, that's the conclusion I came to several years ago. That, coupled with the fact that proper ammo in an intermediate rifle cartridge having less risk of over penetration than buckshot or pistol rounds, and I use a semi-auto .223 / 5.56 carbine for HD.

The problem is that a quality, bare bones, base model intermediate rifle cartridge firing carbine will set you back about $650. That carbine may or may not be legal for medium game like deer, depending on where you live. On the other hand, I can drive down to my local big box retailer and get anything from a Mossberg Maverick 88 for $190 on the low end, to a Benelli Nova for $400 on the high end, and several other quality pump shotgun options in between. Any of those options in 12 or 20 gauge can go from HD, to deer hunting, to bird hunting with nothing more than an ammo and choke tube swap.

The third option, that's often overlooked, is to get a .410 bore pump shotgun. They're available for under $300, and they solve the issue of heavy recoil / slow follow up shots. They don't have the utility of their 12 and 20 gauge brothers, nor do they have the capacity of their semi-auto carbine relatives on the other side of the long gun family tree. However, for a dedicated HD weapon they're a great option when one is seeking a reliable long gun with light recoil and a low price.

 

[Jim Watson]

I understand the cost side.
And I HAVE a 12 gauge. For an emergency weapon, I will likely just load it with low recoil buckshot and hold hard. If it runs empty, I will follow M. Ayoob's advice; put it down and draw the pistol.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If I am to be equipped with a tight choke and buffered shot such that I must take close aim, I would do better to arm myself with a carbine of some sort with more shots and less recoil.

I like tight patterning defensive shotguns, and also own a number of AR carbines. We live in a rural area, and therefore there is an AR carbine kept handy if needed. But there are multiple (4) shotguns kept out of the gun safe here while we are home, as well.

Why?

I consider a shotgun and buckshot the optimum defensive weapon for short duration close range encounters with thin-skinned, lightly boned assailants of around 200 pounds. I've come to that conclusion over years, some of which were spent working as an EMT. Clint Smith put it bluntly, to the effect that "shotguns remove meat and bone." And they do, very effectively. It's my responsibility to hit what I shoot at - it's the firearm's job to do the maximum amount of damage possible to the target in a defensive situation. For that job, I prefer a shotgun.

But that's what I prefer. Because I prefer it does not say that it will be universally preferred. People should use what they are best at using to protect their lives and families - and I'm better with a shotgun. Carbines and handguns have advantages too - no denying that. And some people will prefer one or the other. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as a person's actual level of performance with their chosen defensive weapon is at least as good according to objective standards as they think it is.

There is no effective level of Mittyishness* ...



* http://www.all-story.com/issues.cgi?action=show_story&story_id=100

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I don't think spreader wads are effective with buckshot.

Mike

 

[IBEWBULL]

never tried it but.

If I were reloading I would try this and see what happens.

Take your buck shot and peen it out of round a bit before loading the shell then see what the pasterns yield. I would guess it will spread more but pattern irregularly.
Many years ago I herd of bird shot being flattened and used as spreader shot. This too could be interesting. I bet it would sound like a hive of bees when set off.

Just an interesting experiment for those with nothing better to do.

I hope someone will post results of this.

Have fun and be safe.
Steve in Wisconsin

 

[plumberroy]

First the myth just fire in the general direction and it will get them is just that a myth even with something to spread the shot unless you live in a large mansion aiming is still needed . Unless you are into something illegal where organized crime sends a squad of ex-military hit men after you. You won't be facing 2 dozen trained bad guys. 99.9 % of the time if deadly force is used on Bad guy #1 bad guy #2 is going to slip and fall on the brown streak bad #3 left as he exited the sight. average criminals don't like fair fights and leave asap when they realize that they don't have a great advantage
Roy

 

[Uniquedot]

Many years ago I herd of bird shot being flattened and used as spreader shot.

All shot used to be flat and square, then swan shot came along, and then finally the shot tower. some people still make and use cube shot just to keep the old time flavor of front stuffing shotguns the old way alive.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Take your buck shot and peen it out of round a bit before loading the shell then see what the pasterns yield.

No need to go to all that trouble. Any of the inexpensive buckshot offerings with soft lead pellets and no protection for the pellets will distort the buckshot for you just fine in the bore of the shotgun when you pull the trigger. Try S&B ...

And no, that is not intended as condemnation. I keep some S&B on hand should I ever need wide open patterns.

 

[leadcounsel]

I would be defending from a fixed position, probably in low light.

Why in low light?

I want to do the best I can to account for every one of my bullets or pellets. One of the rules is to know your backstop.

Seems the solution is to turn lights on, at least to backlight your target. A handful of tactically placed lights would illuminate your targets. Maybe wire a flood light coming from your fixed position to blind any attackers. Make it wireless. Or mount a light on your shotgun.

Yep, a load of buckshot would be darn effective. Can't imagine staying in the fight if hit by a few pellets of buckshot. If you're still in the fight, doubt you'd be effective. After hearing the "Boom," seeing the blinding 12 gauge flash in your direction, and feeling the searing pain of the energy dump of buckshot in your leg, abdomen, chest, arm, etc., for most people they are switching from 'fight' to 'flight' pretty darn quickly. And if that first shot isn't convincing, then there's the followup shot, which would take 1-2 seconds.

Would be tough for a first responder to deal with 4, 5, 6 + deep tissue wounds too. Or more.

What we forget is that people 'invading' your home are looking for an easy score... they are not likely hardened armored Soldiers. That means that they're likely to fold, go down, or flee when you shoot them.

 

[huntsman]

If I am to be equipped with a tight choke and buffered shot such that I must take close aim, I would do better to arm myself with a carbine of some sort with more shots and less recoil.

A tighter choke and buffer will give you extended range maybe not necessary in HD but HD is not the only reason to own a shotgun.

This whole aim a shotgun thing comes from rifleman trying to transfer their skills to a different firearm, the truth is most don't really know how to use a shotgun correctly. When shooting instinctive the shotgun choke or payload doesn't have much effect on shot placement a good hit is a good hit.

 

[NoirFan]

What I don't about the preference for tight patterns is, why not take the tight pattern mentality to its logical conclusion and use a foster slug? It's the same weight of lead as a standard 00 buck load, it expands and fragments when it strikes, and you can't get a tighter pattern than one big hole.

I use the basic Winchester buckshot in my defensive weapon. On my small property, a softball-sized pattern at 7 yards is ideal.

 

[Fred Fuller]

why not take the tight pattern mentality to its logical conclusion and use a foster slug?

On a soft target, buckshot will likely do more damage than a slug, while penetrating less overall, even at close range. Especially at close range, due to the billiard ball effect.

Just because some people like tight patterns doesn't mean everyone has to...

 

[lemaymiami]

As I read the various threads on patterning buckshot for home defense all of my instincts go back to the basics.... You still have to line up your target and knock it down, period. You do that one target at a time.... anything else is wishful thinking (and might have a bad outcome for the good guy). Nothing beats a shotgun at close quarters (under 15 meters for all practical purposes if we're really talking home defense...). The only addtional item you might want to keep in mind is the advice I gave every young cop that I worked with.... "always aim just a bit low" -that's not where you'll hit but under extreme stress (not to mention scared to death...) most will hit higher than they aimed... In a life or death situation you must put your opponent down at the earliest opportunity -that's the only way I know to be pretty sure of surviving an armed confrontation if it can't be avoided. What you'll experience after a shooting is a topic in itself....

 

[T Bran]

I once fired a 3.5'' 12 ga #4 buck from a rifled barrel hoping for the same effect.
While it worked very well at 3 to 5 yards albeit a bit hollow in the center by 7 to 10 yards it was way to unpredictable. Anything beyond about 10 yards was just plain scary.

An 18'' cylinder choke with your buckshot of choice really is the way to go.
Some of the coyote and goose loads on the market wouldn't be to shabby either.
T