DHart
Member
I believe that C&S (Cylinder & Slide) makes a tool steel hammer strut.
Springfield Rant-2
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Wichaka
Member
Will be having a hard time spending that much on a strut.............
DHart
Member
Colt makes a good hammer strut, if you need one for a Government model, just tell them that... I believe they only have one grade of strut. Not sure if they can provide the part, though. Possibly, but with Colt you never know. I love their products, but availability of guns and parts can be iffy.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Colt Struts
DHart and Wichaka! Brownells has Colt struts. They're in
the Colt factory parts section of the catalog.
Part Number 160-113-250 Blue /160-113-251 Stainless
Retail cost is $5.20 for either and $4.20 jobber.
While you're at it, might as well get the pin too. In the
Common parts section at the front.
Luck!
Tuner
DHart and Wichaka! Brownells has Colt struts. They're in
the Colt factory parts section of the catalog.
Part Number 160-113-250 Blue /160-113-251 Stainless
Retail cost is $5.20 for either and $4.20 jobber.
While you're at it, might as well get the pin too. In the
Common parts section at the front.
Luck!
Tuner
Wichaka
Member
Ya know........I forgot about that section of the catalog. Sometimes I wish they would produce a catalog that has 1911 stuff only. Would simplify my life greatly.
I take it Tuner that Colt is producing steel stuff?
Do you know what stuff from Colt is Steel, what is cast, and what is MIM?
I just looked in the catalog and it says........in small print "Parts are for current production A1 and Enhanced, Series 80 models" Which tells me that the buyer will be getting the part in whatever the material they are making it out of now.........not 20-30 years ago.
As you know bro I use solid steel aftermarket stuff, so I'm not up who's making what with what.............that's why mom said to rely on you!
I take it Tuner that Colt is producing steel stuff?
Do you know what stuff from Colt is Steel, what is cast, and what is MIM?
I just looked in the catalog and it says........in small print "Parts are for current production A1 and Enhanced, Series 80 models" Which tells me that the buyer will be getting the part in whatever the material they are making it out of now.........not 20-30 years ago.
As you know bro I use solid steel aftermarket stuff, so I'm not up who's making what with what.............that's why mom said to rely on you!
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Colt Steel
Howdy Wichaka,
Colt still uses steel for its hammers, slidestops, firing pin stops,
all pins, slides, frames, and barrrels. Also extractors and ejectors.
Mainspring plungers and caps. Be aware that there could be a few
NRMs and Enhanced models in the pipes that have MIM extractors.
You can spot'em by the rectangular indention on the butt-end at 6 O'Clock.
Riley...Wichaka is the long lost son that ran off with the circus 20 years ago...It was after he found out that mom liked me best...
Luck!
Tuner
Howdy Wichaka,
Colt still uses steel for its hammers, slidestops, firing pin stops,
all pins, slides, frames, and barrrels. Also extractors and ejectors.
Mainspring plungers and caps. Be aware that there could be a few
NRMs and Enhanced models in the pipes that have MIM extractors.
You can spot'em by the rectangular indention on the butt-end at 6 O'Clock.
Riley...Wichaka is the long lost son that ran off with the circus 20 years ago...It was after he found out that mom liked me best...
Luck!
Tuner
I wonder if it's possible to find a real steel sear, disconnector and hammer set already fitted to each other? But then, there may be variances when the set is installed in the frame; holes may not be exactly straight, or may be off by a few thousands? Looks like I'll have to invest in a set of calipers and learn how to use them.
Wichaka
Member
RileyMc;
I wonder if it's possible to find a real steel sear, disconnector and hammer set already fitted to each other?
I use Brown Barstock Hardcore hammers, Nowlin Pro Match sears, Briley Disconnects, and its amazing how well they all fit together.
I just put a set in my SA Loaded, and I didn't have to adjust the safety to the sear. It worked great, with very little fitting.
I wonder if it's possible to find a real steel sear, disconnector and hammer set already fitted to each other?
I use Brown Barstock Hardcore hammers, Nowlin Pro Match sears, Briley Disconnects, and its amazing how well they all fit together.
I just put a set in my SA Loaded, and I didn't have to adjust the safety to the sear. It worked great, with very little fitting.
Tuner:
You keep saying that mom liked you best, but I remember the time we all went to the zoo and she told you to go pet the nice tiger … That was after she rubbed you down with barbeque sauce because she hadn’t brought any suntan lotion …
You keep saying that mom liked you best, but I remember the time we all went to the zoo and she told you to go pet the nice tiger … That was after she rubbed you down with barbeque sauce because she hadn’t brought any suntan lotion …
Nowlin and Cylinder and Slide sell a 'complete' set of trigger parts that "drop in" so to speak.
I have no experience with them so as far as the thumb safety fitting and everything being lined up... don't know.
Nowlin seems to be priced lower than C&S. They are not cheap, IMO, so I wouldn't want to buy them at full retail and then, if there was a problem, have a gunsmith "fit them".
But, I'm tempted sometimes.
I have no experience with them so as far as the thumb safety fitting and everything being lined up... don't know.
Nowlin seems to be priced lower than C&S. They are not cheap, IMO, so I wouldn't want to buy them at full retail and then, if there was a problem, have a gunsmith "fit them".
But, I'm tempted sometimes.
Wichaka
Member
The problem with C&S and Nowlin is that some of their higher end stuff is still cast. Read the fine print to be sure.
Adding to your rant Tuner. I just went thru 2 SA's over the weekend. One Champion & one Professional. Both were SS.
The guy paid 1,000 for the Pro model. Its nice looking with front strap checkering and all, but the guts showed the same things. MIM hammer, sear, & disconnect. Cast slide stop, and safeties. The strange thing was the Grip & thumb safeties. The inside of the grip safety is blue/black color, as if someone painted it, the same shows for the thumb safety too. Then after closer exam of the hammer, it has the same treatment. They are not anywhere near SS..............very sad for a SS gun at 1,000 clams!
I looked into a Champion too..........same as the above. I was pretty amazed at the painted looking parts.
So now I'm replacing all the junk parts for both of them.
Go ahead SA keep making them this way, your making me money!
But on the other hand, you also may get someone killed as both the above guns are for L.E. duty.
I changed out all the junk parts on my loaded before I put it into service. If there's any L.E. guys on here, I would suggest the same for any gun before putting it into service.
Adding to your rant Tuner. I just went thru 2 SA's over the weekend. One Champion & one Professional. Both were SS.
The guy paid 1,000 for the Pro model. Its nice looking with front strap checkering and all, but the guts showed the same things. MIM hammer, sear, & disconnect. Cast slide stop, and safeties. The strange thing was the Grip & thumb safeties. The inside of the grip safety is blue/black color, as if someone painted it, the same shows for the thumb safety too. Then after closer exam of the hammer, it has the same treatment. They are not anywhere near SS..............very sad for a SS gun at 1,000 clams!
I looked into a Champion too..........same as the above. I was pretty amazed at the painted looking parts.
So now I'm replacing all the junk parts for both of them.
Go ahead SA keep making them this way, your making me money!
But on the other hand, you also may get someone killed as both the above guns are for L.E. duty.
I changed out all the junk parts on my loaded before I put it into service. If there's any L.E. guys on here, I would suggest the same for any gun before putting it into service.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Mom
Big Brudder Fuff said:
remember the time we all went to the zoo and she told you to go pet the nice tiger … That was after she rubbed you down with barbeque sauce
____________________
That was...BARBECUE SAUCE???
I remember her sayin' that was rare, Giant Siamese Cat!
Ya think maybe she really liked Wichaka best after all?
Big Brudder Fuff said:
remember the time we all went to the zoo and she told you to go pet the nice tiger … That was after she rubbed you down with barbeque sauce
____________________
That was...BARBECUE SAUCE??? I remember her sayin' that was rare, Giant Siamese Cat!
Ya think maybe she really liked Wichaka best after all?
As far as Nowlin and C&S trigger parts, I really only "go by" what I read in Brownells. Again, I have no experience with these type of after market parts.
If the manufacturers were doing their job, most people would want to buy "factory" parts like most other products we buy and you wouldn't have to wade through 10 pages of stuff.
Nowlin's lowest price set is MIM. The rest are listed at A-6, S-7 tool steel, EDM cut and all that "garbage"....to a layman anyway.
C&S "lists" tool steel parts, S-7 etc, only as I read it, and the prices reflect that.
If a part is listed as precision "machined" from whatever, and doesn't mention barstock/ tool steel, I assume it's cast... If it is tool steel and the manufacturer is too stupid to list it...then so be it!
Ed Brown list both cast and barstock/tool steel stuff. Wilson lists MIM and tool steel.
As Tuner mentioned, Ed Brown's "hardcore" slide stop is a cast unit while their standard stop is barstock. So, I'm confused unless the "hardcore" is just a marketing deal where the manufactuer knows full well that the chances of anyone shooting enough rounds through the gun to break it is slim to none. I suspect that's the deal with most "lifetime" warranty products anyway.
I am over 25,000 rounds with an Ed Brown cast hammer, MIM sear and disconnector with no problems. When I replace them, I will use tool steel parts though, so I am confused as always.
If the manufacturers were doing their job, most people would want to buy "factory" parts like most other products we buy and you wouldn't have to wade through 10 pages of stuff.
Nowlin's lowest price set is MIM. The rest are listed at A-6, S-7 tool steel, EDM cut and all that "garbage"....to a layman anyway.
C&S "lists" tool steel parts, S-7 etc, only as I read it, and the prices reflect that.
If a part is listed as precision "machined" from whatever, and doesn't mention barstock/ tool steel, I assume it's cast...
If it is tool steel and the manufacturer is too stupid to list it...then so be it!Ed Brown list both cast and barstock/tool steel stuff. Wilson lists MIM and tool steel.
As Tuner mentioned, Ed Brown's "hardcore" slide stop is a cast unit while their standard stop is barstock. So, I'm confused unless the "hardcore" is just a marketing deal where the manufactuer knows full well that the chances of anyone shooting enough rounds through the gun to break it is slim to none. I suspect that's the deal with most "lifetime" warranty products anyway.
I am over 25,000 rounds with an Ed Brown cast hammer, MIM sear and disconnector with no problems. When I replace them, I will use tool steel parts though, so I am confused as always.
45auto:
I shall try to remove some confusion while you wait on Tuner ...
In certain applications there is no objection to MIM or investment cast parts. IF THEY ARE MADE AS THEY SHOULD BE. In other applications these manufacturing methods should never be used (example: extractors).
The problem arises when quality varies all over the map. Then you may expect the part to fail at some time, but who knows when?
Forged or tool steel (real-steel) parts can fail too, but failures are more predictable because they have a history going back to 1911. Castings, and especially MIM parts do not.
If your personal pistol is a range gun or can roller you can take a chance, because an unexpected part failure won't matter that much.
But if the gun is used as a weapon you'd better think about it.
I shall try to remove some confusion while you wait on Tuner ...
In certain applications there is no objection to MIM or investment cast parts. IF THEY ARE MADE AS THEY SHOULD BE. In other applications these manufacturing methods should never be used (example: extractors).
The problem arises when quality varies all over the map. Then you may expect the part to fail at some time, but who knows when?
Forged or tool steel (real-steel) parts can fail too, but failures are more predictable because they have a history going back to 1911. Castings, and especially MIM parts do not.
If your personal pistol is a range gun or can roller you can take a chance, because an unexpected part failure won't matter that much.
But if the gun is used as a weapon you'd better think about it.
Wichaka
Member
1911 Tuner;
Ya think maybe she really liked Wichaka best after all?
She must have had something in her mind, or she wouldn't have put me out West.
Ya think maybe she really liked Wichaka best after all?
She must have had something in her mind, or she wouldn't have put me out West.
Old Fuff:
Good points.
I would definately use tool-steel parts in a 1911 carry gun. The actual cost of MIM versus tool steel, even at retail, is quite small given the labor cost of a gunsmith and POSTAGE if you have to send it away.
I also have no doubt that the tool steel parts will hold a better trigger feel and last longer than a MIM. Plus, if you can stay with the same sear, you don't have to 'fool' with the thumb safety fitting which can be a pain for us non-professionals.
I do wonder why Brown's "hardcore" slidestop is cast and the lesser priced one is barstock ? Could it be in certain areas that a cast part would be better then a forged/ barstock because of grain structure and all that?
Good points.
I would definately use tool-steel parts in a 1911 carry gun. The actual cost of MIM versus tool steel, even at retail, is quite small given the labor cost of a gunsmith and POSTAGE if you have to send it away.
I also have no doubt that the tool steel parts will hold a better trigger feel and last longer than a MIM. Plus, if you can stay with the same sear, you don't have to 'fool' with the thumb safety fitting which can be a pain for us non-professionals.
I do wonder why Brown's "hardcore" slidestop is cast and the lesser priced one is barstock ? Could it be in certain areas that a cast part would be better then a forged/ barstock because of grain structure and all that?
>> I do wonder why Brown's "hardcore" slidestop is cast and the lesser priced one is barstock ? Could it be in certain areas that a cast part would be better then a forged/ barstock because of grain structure and all that? <<
I have no idea. It must be in the design (??) because it isn't in the material. I have decided to become rich by selling an extractor made out of green cheese, but I'll advertise it as offering, "gunmaster tactical extraction because of its unique super hook!" They'll sell like hotcakes!! All I need to do is find a source for stainless green cheese ...
I have no idea. It must be in the design (??) because it isn't in the material. I have decided to become rich by selling an extractor made out of green cheese, but I'll advertise it as offering, "gunmaster tactical extraction because of its unique super hook!" They'll sell like hotcakes!! All I need to do is find a source for stainless green cheese ...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Alea Iacta Est
The die is cast...or so 'tis said.
In agreement with Fuff, in that there are some parts that are suited for investment casting or MIM...No question about it. While a GOOD cast slidestop will last a long time, it likely won't last as long as a GOOD
barstock stop, all else being equal.
_____________________
.45Auto said:
of anyone shooting enough rounds through the gun to break it is slim to none. I suspect that's the deal with most "lifetime" warranty products anyway...
So true. The manufacturers of guns AND aftermarket parts are fully aware
that 10% of the shooters are doin' 90% of the shootin'...and they know that the average gun owner/buyer/shooter probably won't break a given part in a lifetime...but that "Lifetime Guarantee" could cover a very short
life if one of the products fails earlier than expected...or the owner doesn;'t
understand that the casting may not hold up under a lot of practice with his
carry gun. Some of us do that, after all. I take a different approach and set
up my range guns to closely match my carry guns...but many of us don't.
I'm a strong advocate of owning two or more identical guns for that very reason.
'Night all! Thunderboomers in the area dictate shutting this thing down early.
TUner
The die is cast...or so 'tis said.
In agreement with Fuff, in that there are some parts that are suited for investment casting or MIM...No question about it. While a GOOD cast slidestop will last a long time, it likely won't last as long as a GOOD
barstock stop, all else being equal.
_____________________
.45Auto said:
of anyone shooting enough rounds through the gun to break it is slim to none. I suspect that's the deal with most "lifetime" warranty products anyway...
So true. The manufacturers of guns AND aftermarket parts are fully aware
that 10% of the shooters are doin' 90% of the shootin'...and they know that the average gun owner/buyer/shooter probably won't break a given part in a lifetime...but that "Lifetime Guarantee" could cover a very short
life if one of the products fails earlier than expected...or the owner doesn;'t
understand that the casting may not hold up under a lot of practice with his
carry gun. Some of us do that, after all. I take a different approach and set
up my range guns to closely match my carry guns...but many of us don't.
I'm a strong advocate of owning two or more identical guns for that very reason.
'Night all! Thunderboomers in the area dictate shutting this thing down early.
TUner
After thinking things over I have come to the conclusion that you are right. But the people running the companies like Springfield are not shooters but MBAs who could care less about the product, be it guns, cars, or the frozen pizza with "cheese substitute" on it (whatever that is ) I ate last night. So I guess you buy a Springfield or similar, wear out the small parts, and rebuild it better. Because I don't know what else to do. This happens with all manufacturers from time to time, and believe me I know because I get more lemons than average. And you complain loudly and frequently, and maybe they fix it, and maybe you give up and try something else. After 4 M1As I gave up, just to give an example. I spend the money up front now because I have learned the hard way :banghead: that you get what you pay for, and sometimes not even then.
) I ate last night. So I guess you buy a Springfield or similar, wear out the small parts, and rebuild it better. Because I don't know what else to do. This happens with all manufacturers from time to time, and believe me I know because I get more lemons than average. And you complain loudly and frequently, and maybe they fix it, and maybe you give up and try something else. After 4 M1As I gave up, just to give an example. I spend the money up front now because I have learned the hard way :banghead: that you get what you pay for, and sometimes not even then.Tamara
Senior Member
Wichaka,
A stainless steel Professional? For only $1,000? Are you quite certain you want to stand by that statement?
(BTW: Springfield small parts on SS guns are flash-chromed and not SS. Thought everone knew that...)
A stainless steel Professional? For only $1,000? Are you quite certain you want to stand by that statement?
(BTW: Springfield small parts on SS guns are flash-chromed and not SS. Thought everone knew that...)
Tamara
Senior Member
Y'know, originally I was kinda hopin' Tuner's "brother" Wichaka would respond.
Then I figured I'd let it die.
Then I figured I'd drag it back up as a splendid example of the foolhardiness of believing what you read on the internet, even if presented by someone who presents themselves as a 'grizzled veteran'.
Folks, Wichaka may have seen a stainless Springfield that his buddy owns, but it sure as heck wasn't a Professional Model. Not in stainless, not with a "MIM hammer & sear", and not for only $1,000, it sure wasn't. I'm sure Wichaka wasn't being intentionally misleading. Maybe his buddy told him that his Loaded or TRP was a Pro, but the fact remains that it was presented as fact, while being blatantly unfactual.
The lesson here? Don't believe everything you read, and take it upon yourself to become an educated consumer.
Then I figured I'd let it die.
Then I figured I'd drag it back up as a splendid example of the foolhardiness of believing what you read on the internet, even if presented by someone who presents themselves as a 'grizzled veteran'.
Folks, Wichaka may have seen a stainless Springfield that his buddy owns, but it sure as heck wasn't a Professional Model. Not in stainless, not with a "MIM hammer & sear", and not for only $1,000, it sure wasn't. I'm sure Wichaka wasn't being intentionally misleading. Maybe his buddy told him that his Loaded or TRP was a Pro, but the fact remains that it was presented as fact, while being blatantly unfactual.
The lesson here? Don't believe everything you read, and take it upon yourself to become an educated consumer.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Thousand Dollar Pro
Tam asked:
A stainless steel Professional? For only $1,000? Are you quite certain you want to stand by that statement?
Is it possible that the Pro is used? Slightly used? Well used?
Abused? We don't see many of'em around here, but I seem to
recall seein' one in a dealer's used case not too long ago for
1100 out the door...
Tam asked:
A stainless steel Professional? For only $1,000? Are you quite certain you want to stand by that statement?
Is it possible that the Pro is used? Slightly used? Well used?
Abused? We don't see many of'em around here, but I seem to
recall seein' one in a dealer's used case not too long ago for
1100 out the door...
Tamara
Senior Member
1911Tuner,
1) The Pro is not available in stainless.
2) The Pro has a hand-fitted tool steel hammer and sear.
3) The Pro had a wholesale cost from RSR of $1,911 as of mid-2k3.
If you saw a Professional with an OTD price of $1,100, you should buy it immediately and turn a 50% profit on Gunbroker.com.
When I mentioned that I paid $1,300 for mine, I had to provide photos to the cognoscenti before they believed me, and I only got that price because the guy traded it in on a Custom Shop Kimber and a Para LTD that we were into very right. And that was three years ago.
Sorry, but I'm just not that credulous; extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
1) The Pro is not available in stainless.
2) The Pro has a hand-fitted tool steel hammer and sear.
3) The Pro had a wholesale cost from RSR of $1,911 as of mid-2k3.
If you saw a Professional with an OTD price of $1,100, you should buy it immediately and turn a 50% profit on Gunbroker.com.
When I mentioned that I paid $1,300 for mine, I had to provide photos to the cognoscenti before they believed me, and I only got that price because the guy traded it in on a Custom Shop Kimber and a Para LTD that we were into very right. And that was three years ago.
Sorry, but I'm just not that credulous; extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Rob96
Member
Tuner, I think Tamara is aying that there is no stainless Pro model. If you follow the link she provided, the Pro is only listed in one configuration.
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