St Louis Police don't steal scalped tickets.

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Blackfork

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Or something. Police Chief says they "aren't thieves."

8 police officers suspended in ticket case
By Bill Bryan
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
04/04/2007

UPDATE:

Eight city police officers who used World Series tickets seized from scalpers were suspended without pay for 14 days and may lose up to $20,000 each in wages from reduced rank, Chief Joe Mokwa announced this afternoon.

He said what they did was "intolerable" but added that they are "not thieves" and "can be redeemed."
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Mokwa also said the circumstances would be reviewed by Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce, and he did not rule out the possibility she would file criminal charges.

The eight were not publicly named. All have admitted providing tickets from evidence for use by friends or relatives, officials said. Mokwa said he will ask the police board to reduce them a grade in rank for at least a year. That would demote some or all to probationary officer, with a pay loss of perhaps $20,000, the chief explained.

In addition, seven supervisors, including a lieutenant and three sergeants, will receive unspecified lesser discipline for lax oversight, he said.

There was no evidence to support rumors that high-ranking officers may have used some of the 30 rickets at issue from last October's world championship at Busch Stadium, Mokwa said earlier.

A scalper who overheard police talking about using his ticket blew the whistle, officials said. Scalping means selling a ticket at over face value, which is illegal under St. Louis ordinance.

The Police Officers Association publicly expressed fears Tuesday that the officers would be fired, and vowed to fight to save their jobs. Sgt. Kevin Ahlbrand, president of the POA, issued a statement this afternoon saying Mokwa's "discipline in this situation was fair and just."



----------------

Our earlier story:

Fearing that St. Louis Police Chief Joe Mokwa will seek to fire eight police officers for misusing World Series tickets that were taken from scalpers last October, the St. Louis Police Officers Association is digging in for a battle.

The association's executive board, in an emergency meeting Tuesday, voted to hire noted criminal lawyer Scott Rosenblum to take over the handling of the ticket matter for the eight officers, said Sgt. Kevin Ahlbrand, president of the association.

"If the chief wants to terminate the officers, we think that's a ridiculously harsh punishment," Ahlbrand told the Post-Dispatch.

Mokwa told the newspaper that he will hold a press conference today to announce his decision over the fate of the eight officers, who were members of the vice-narcotics squad assigned to a scalping detail last October. The eight have admitted in sworn statements to giving some 30 tickets that had been seized from scalpers to family members or friends to use to attend games. After the tickets were used, they were placed into evidence for future court use.

Mokwa has alluded that he considered the officers' actions a serious ethical problem for the department and egregious enough that he would seek to have them fired. But he stopped short on Tuesday of confirming what decision he has reached and what he will announce today.

"It would not be appropriate for the officers to have to read about in the newspaper," Mokwa told the Post-Dispatch.

"I will say that tomorrow (Wednesday) I can reassure the public that the investigation is pretty much complete as to the eight officers."

Ahlbrand acknowledged that he has heard that Mokwa has requested the officers' resignations, or face the alternative of suspension and termination proceedings beginning.

"We're supporting our members," Ahlbrand said. "If (Mokwa's) recommendation is termination, that's too harsh for allegations of mishandling evidence in a city court case."

Ahlbrand acknowledged that last fall when the investigation began, the officers in question readily admitted their actions to internal affairs investigators because the matter was not deemed that serious at the time. One of the officers was even promoted to sergeant in February.

But recently a University City officer who was working with the vice-narcotics detectives on the detail was forced to resign by his department, and news of the investigation became public.

Mokwa said Tuesday that six additional officers, including a lieutenant and three sergeants, are also facing disciplinary action in connection with the investigation, although "not as severe" as the eight.

"This whole thing has been very anxiety-provoking for everyone, and it will be resolved to a degree" today, Mokwa said.

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Yes Sir never ever hold the line between right and wrong , next thing these same cops will be selling drugs they confiscate from the dealers "If they already haven't" to the school kids out of their patrol cars .

They should be made an example of and fired and jailed in the general population for 90 days minimum for pulling this garbage .
 
From Article posted above:
The Police Officers Association publicly expressed fears Tuesday that the officers would be fired, and vowed to fight to save their jobs. Sgt. Kevin Ahlbrand, president of the POA, issued a statement this afternoon saying Mokwa's "discipline in this situation was fair and just."
They robbed someone under the color of law. What else have they taken from the evidence room? Maybe they were a little short on a down payment for a car? Why let that money go to waste?

I am sorry but for the Police Officers Association should not stand up for these criminals.

I would argue that if the officers arrested the scalper and took the tickets while armed they are guilty of armed robbery. They took something for personal use and should be fired. I think they should lose their pensions as well. And I really feel that imprisonment is not out of order.
 
Okay, I am trying for the life of me to figure out what this has to do with guns or civil rights and keep coming up empty....
 
OK, get a grip. They did not rob someone, unless I'm misunderstanding what happened, or it has not been properly represented. However, they most certainly are thieves (again, unless it has been misrepresented). I also agree that the union should not be going to bat for these guys. Making sure their procedural rights are observed? Sure. Carrying their water in the media? No.

Mike
 
Okay, I am trying for the life of me to figure out what this has to do with guns or civil rights and keep coming up empty....

Police TAKE property and then keep it for PERSONAL use. Not sure, but that sounds like a perfect example of something that should be in legal and political.

On another note, the last time I checked TAKING something that doesn't belong to you IS theft. Either way you look at it, they either took property from the individuals or evidnece from the PD. Still theft either way!
 
The eight have admitted in sworn statements to giving some 30 tickets that had been seized from scalpers to family members or friends to use to attend games. After the tickets were used, they were placed into evidence for future court use.

i wonder if they can be held on a "destruction of evidence" charge. how can a scalper be accused of selling a used ticket? doesn't that clearly ruin the case for the prosecution?

if i was a defense attorney i would love to have that evidence submitted by the prosecution - haha, a used ticket stub. what crime is that?

sorry, im usually for the cops, but a big -1 for them this time. makes the entire PD look stupid.:confused:
 
Well, a few years back, before we got vehicle carry (in addition to real carry) passed, a fellow was downtown at the courthouse, and rooting around in his trunk... He had a new o/u skeet gun still in the box in there. A cop wandered by, saw it, told him he was being arrested. He was never "really" arrested, but the shotgun disappeared. A lot of times folks busted for CCW would have the same thing happen - lots of guns got "recycled" that way...
 
What I'd like to know is...

That would demote some or all to probationary officer, with a pay loss of perhaps $20,000
...may lose up to $20,000 each in wages from reduced rank

Are you telling me several promotions as a law enforcement officer will net you a $20,000 rise in wages? :what: I must be seeing this in some sort of ignorant, misguided way, or the media is exaggerating again. Someone fill me in.
 
Cops are human beings and subject to human failings..imagine that....

How come you guys missed this thread?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3251446

Where's the outrage? Is it different when it's one of your own?

It seems to me that the system is working like it should and the officers are being punished. My personal feeling is that they got off lightly. If I were chief they would have been fired. So just what is the story here?

i wonder if they can be held on a "destruction of evidence" charge. how can a scalper be accused of selling a used ticket? doesn't that clearly ruin the case for the prosecution?

if i was a defense attorney i would love to have that evidence submitted by the prosecution - haha, a used ticket stub. what crime is that?

You can't tell a used ticket from an unused one. They aren't torn in half, the barcode on them is scanned.

A couple of members posting in this thread are always full of outrage whenever a police officer screws up or appears to screw up. Yet they failed to weigh in when a CCW holder apparently shot a man dead with no provaction in Houston last week. The hypocrasy is quite open and evident.

Jeff
 
A couple of members posting in this thread are always full of outrage whenever a police officer screws up or appears to screw up. Yet they failed to weigh in when a CCW holder apparently shot a man dead with no provaction in Houston last week. The hypocrasy is quite open and evident.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I usually only read the L&P and rifle forums. The thread you referenced is on the general gun discussion forum.

I wouldn't be surprised if others here don't often read the general forum.
 
t seems to me that the system is working like it should and the officers are being punished. My personal feeling is that they got off lightly. If I were chief they would have been fired. So just what is the story here?

That's what I was wondering.

If we had more Chiefs like this, that had a zero tolerance policy, there would be a lot less of the other crap to talk about.

Kudos to the Chief here for taking swift action.

That wouldn't have happened in NYC or Chicago folks, bear that in mind.
 
If the Union does not vigorusly defend these guys, then the Union is open to a law suit as well. They must defend their members or be sued by their members. It doesnt matter if the members are right or wrong. It a messed up system.
 
Jeff White wrote:

You can't tell a used ticket from an unused one. They aren't torn in half, the barcode on them is scanned.

didnt know that. so visually you can't tell, but i guess if a sharp attorney was able to get his hands on a scanning machine, then perhaps it may de-rail the prosecution's case?

i agree with you Jeff, yes, there are many on THR who are quick to bash cops who screw up yet don't take issue with private citizen concealed-carry holders who are quick to pull the trigger.

the incident that you pointed out in Houston i believe is still under investigation, but i did talk briefly to a Houston PD Metro cop this past weekend about it, and he said that it while it is still under investigation, they are investigating it as a homicide (i.e., a criminal act).
 
If the Union does not vigorusly defend these guys, then the Union is open to a law suit as well. They must defend their members or be sued by their members. It doesnt matter if the members are right or wrong. It a messed up system.
True. However, there is a difference between:

1. Making sure that they are adequetly defended in any legal and administrative procedures arising out of this.

2. Standing up in front of the cameras and saying these officers are stand-up guys.

Now, if the Union honestly believes they are innocent, sure...stand up and defend them in the media. However, if they don't think they're innocent (and lets face it, it really seems like they aren't), do a no-comment and get back to the job of ensuring their rights are preserved. There is no need to defend them in the media, since we do not try cases in the court of public opinion and doing so can only further tarnish the badge...again, unless they really are innocent.

Basically, it's a judgment call on the part of the union. Knee-jerk public defenses of each and every officer, regardless of the propriety of their actions, doesn't help anyone.

Mike
 
If they did that of which they are accused they need to be fired, fined and possibly imprisoned. If they are guilty, not only did they steal the tickets, and steal the servivce that the ticket provided, but they stole them from an evidence lockup. If they did all of that, their testimony is, by law in any future criminal proceeding, worthless because of that.

All the best,
GB
 
The problem is that the whole evidence room is potentially worthless. Some enterprising defence lawyer will use this to get his client out of prison on a technicality.

This isn't about stealing, but about the collapse of a much larger system. All eight cops are now on the record and their testimonies for any future legal proceedings will be under intense attack. And rightfully so.

When people are in that type of profession they cannot afford even the slightest hint of impropriety.
 
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