Stainless Steel tumbling problem

[Joe's]

I bought a SS media setup from STM a couple months ago. Worked as advertised for the first 30 batches or so. Lately they have been coming out looking very brown and gray looking. I take the time to deprime all cases before tumbling, use the exact recipe of Dawn (2 tblsp.), LemonShine (1/4 tsp.) and water (1 gal.) for each load. I then Tumble them for four hours. This used to get the cases to where they would sparkle inside and out.
This started about the fifteenth load. When they would come out gray/brown looking (about 1 in 4 loads) I then would soak them for about 2 min. in Iosso brass cleaner. They would then be bright brass but not shiney. Put them back in the Thumblers Tumbler for another 2 hrs. and walla, bright shiney brass inside and out. Only the last 2 loads have come out gray/brown after redoing this process and it's getting old.

Question: Have any of you folks experienced this gray/brown coloring of your brass? What am I doing wrong and what do I need to do to eliminate this discoloring?

I have even experimented with different water temps, amounts of Dawn and LemonShine, even water amounts.
One thing though, from what I have read in this forum stainless steel should not be able to be picked up with magnet. The stuff they sent me can be.

Any help will be much appreciated,
Joe's

 

[357Shooter]

Stainless Steel with very high nickel content isn't magnetic, but many forms of stainless are magnetic. I've spoken to the factory (Pellets, LLC) that probably made the ones you have (also my own) and they are purposely manufactured to be magnetic so they are easy to pickup.
I'd try dropping the Iosso and maybe try a tumble in your vibrator with some Nu-Finish or similar, it gives a great final shine and prevents oxidation.

 

[LBEE]

I have the SS setup also & I Did away with the Pins. The recipe I use makes them Shine like Gold. I use Simple Green 1TBS, 1TBS,Dawn, 1/8 lemishine, try it you will like it. I had trouble with the pins going everywhere. The above recipe, longer you run, the more they will shine. I use a Metal Collander when done & Rince in COLD water. I noticed with the pins the Brass would start to lose it's shine in 1 Day, where the other recipe They keep their Shine.

 

[bigedp51]

You need to keep the tumbler and media clean, if you do not rinse the tumbler and stainless media every time you use it, dirt, carbon and "rubber" can build up inside the rubber tank. After removing your cases flush the inside of the tumbler and add a few drops of dish washing liquid and by hand agitate the pins and rubber liner. If this does not work add dish washing soap and tumble the pins cleaning the inside of the tumbler and the pins.

You most likely have powder residue/carbon embedded in the rubber liner of the tumbler. The Instructions tell you the cleaner you keep the tumbler the cleaner your cases will be. If it persists you can email STM and ask the expert.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Sheesh, all that work makes me glad I didn't go out and purchase one when I first read about how well they work!

I have an RCBS Vibratory Tumbler with Walnut media that has tumbled literally thousands of pieces without a problem!

I think I will save my money and continue what I am doing!

 

[bigedp51]

Friendly, Don't Fire!

The competitive shooters at http://www.accurateshooter.com/ do not like "any" abrasive media residue inside their cases. They feel this will have a adverse effect on the costly bore of their custom barrels and cause increased wear.

Me, I just like having cases that are sparling clean inside and out.

 

[jmorris]

A lot of benchrest shooters don't tumble brass at all. They spend so much time on case prep cleaning each by hand is no big deal.

 

[MCMXI]

Sheesh, all that work makes me glad I didn't go out and purchase one when I first read about how well they work!

My kit from STM works just fine and my L-N-L loves clean brass dropping down the case feeder tube. I find it easier to seat primers with clean primer pockets too. I'll never go back to depriming cases on a progressive press and I have no regrets after buying a kit from STM.

 

[Joe's]

Gentlemen,
Thank You for all your great ideas. I think I will try two of them tommorow and see if they don't work. If not then it's time to email or call STM.
In the future if comments like Friendly, Don't Fire has are needed, I'll ask for them. I thought this was called The HighRoad for a reason.

Thanks Again Guys,
Joe's

 

[MCMXI]

Joe's, one thing you could try is to use distilled or bottled drinking water. At least you could rule out one variable that way i.e. your tap water.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Joe,

I gotta say, this report is discouraging me from buying one myself and I had plans to. Please keep us posted on the on what you had to do to get the problem resolved.

Resolution of this problem will be my decision maker on wether or not I buy this type of tumbling setup and I have to buy a setup, since I sold my old Midway tumbler & separator.

Best Regards,

Dave

 

[Canuck-IL]

There's got to be something unique to your local situation - way too many people have had outstanding results with the SS media using differing local water, detergent brands/amounts and multiple Lemishine alternatives.

FWIW, I dump the dirty water and suds into a set tub 2-3 times while pouring a couple of cups of cold water into the tumbler each time. That pretty much kills the suds.

I then spill the brass and media into a rotary sifter sitting in its own bucket. Once the brass are separated and the pins are in the bucket, I'll rinse them 2-3 times with a couple cups of water and a little hand agitation. They then go back into the tumbler to await the next batch. So, essentially, the only specific cleaning the tumbler liner gets is incidental to rinsing the brass/pins. I'm probably at about 50 loads of various brass so far and have had no issues with the way the brass comes out save one unrelated to your problem. Too much Lemishine + inadequate rinsing was giving me a few cases with a reddish highlight on them - no problems since I started rinsing more thoroughly.

Dave.in.GA - I'd recommend you go with the SS as long as you decap before tumbling ... IMNSHO, a waste of time if you don't, plus the brass will corrode if damp spent primers are sitting in the cases for any length of time. What I got out of the conversion was no more dust in my basement and primer pockets that don't need any further touch-ups (for rifle, I don't worry about pistol). The downsides are: you need to be somewhat careful in initially dumping the dirty water/suds lest you fill up your drain trap with pins. I use a pretty flat porcelain over iron set tub and have a couple of cut-up fridge magnets around the drain - those catch the rare pin that escapes during the initial dump.

BTW, call PelletsLLC.com for pins - half the price of STM and exactly the same thing - reasonable shipping also. I posted a chart on one of the previous threads w brass quantities in a couple of common calibers but my formula is essentially 3/4 gal H2O with enough brass to bring it to 15#s total run for 3-4 hours.
/Bryan

 

[OldmanFCSA]

Joe,

I gotta say, this report is discouraging me from buying one myself and I had plans to. Please keep us posted on the on what you had to do to get the problem resolved.

Resolution of this problem will be my decision maker on wether or not I buy this type of tumbling setup and I have to buy a setup, since I sold my old Midway tumbler & separator.

Best Regards,

Dave

Dave,
Don't be discouraged by just 1 or 2 bad reports - most of these will be resolved by altering their technique slightly.

I have been using the SS Pin process for over a year now and the only problem I've had was putting too much LemiShine in and turing a batch of pistol brass coppery colored.
I HIGHLY recommend the SS Pin process, but you MUST punch the primers out of cases to get the best results of spotless primer pockets. The very shiny/clean insides of cases is almost unbelievable at first, and becomes the measuring tool for cleanliness compared to other processes.
I rinse my pins with cold water several times to eliminate as much soap suds as reasonably possible, then dump pins back into tumbler barrel, cover pins with water, add a squirt of Dawn soap, and swirl. This will create a seal on water surface preventing pins from rusting between batches. Yes - stainless steel will rust !!! It all depends on series and amount of iron in SSteel. Pins can be captured by using a STRONG magnet.
Lots of good ideas here - keep reading & learn.

 

[Joe's]

Stainless Steel tumbling problem (resolved)

Gentlemen,
Took a couple of peoples advice and emailed STM. Corey told me I was more than likely tumbling the brass too long. I figured more was better, not so in this case (npi). It came out bright and shiney just like before. Corey told me the detergent loses its ability to hold and retain the carbon fouling after so long. It then deposits it back onto the case after a while.
Thanks to every one that responded. I was getting pretty bumbed. Especially I would like to send a big Thank You to Corey at

www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com

for his quick response to my email. Approx. 5 business hrs.
Thanks Again,
Joe's

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Now that's encouraging to hear. Looks like it's time to start saving my money.

Dave

 

[amlevin]

I had a couple of loads turn out like you described. In my case it was the lube I was using and not enough detergent. Dawn is good but there are also others that do a better job of removing the lube, expecially Dillon's lanolin based product.

A change to Unique (lube, not powder) made all the difference. No more brown/gray "goo" left.

 

[SAGERAT]

I love the pins, ONLY thing that EVER got the INSIDE of the case and the primer pockets squeaky clean! I load only for extremely accurate varmint guns, from a little .218 Bee Bullberry Contender through .223AI, 22-250AI, 25/06AI, 7mm STW (yes, it can be a varmint cartridge, a VERY long distance one.) The volume of cases I load is relatively small. Never had any trouble with discoloration, most of this brass is pretty shiney, the loads I use burn hot and clean. However, when my youngest son comes home, it is a different story. He loves old military guns ( I refer to his collection as fence posts) and loads for M1 Garand, 8x57 Mauser, 7.5x55 Swiss, 303 British, some ugly Russian piece of junk, etc. He loads a lot of cast bullets, gets brass from third world countries and shoots mountains of the stuff every time he is home. After a few loads of his scummy brass, we finally had a batch come out scruffy looking (but inside and out were still absolutely CLEAN of powder fouling, primer pockets were clean, it just wasn't as "pretty" as it used to be.) Bothered him more than me, all I care about is that every bullet goes through the same hole. But we cleaned it up quickly, simply ran the tumbler with soap, warm water and media for a few minutes several times, rinsed until the water was nice and clean, now it makes shiny brass again. But the important thing is that shiny or not, it always made absolutely clean brass. And yes the pins are magnetic, not strongly so but enough to pick up with a magnet.