starline 38spl mixed lengths!

[Axis II]

Sorry guys for hammering the questions here lately. I began shooting pistol matches at the club and getting ready for woodchuck season so I'm loading a lot and testing a lot so have questions.

Well here we go with the brass-I purchased 100pc of starling 38spl +p from midwayusa last week and just sat down to load and measured about 10 of the 100 pieces and the manuals state 1.145 as a trim length. well I have 1.140-1.151. I measured about 25 pieces and every one of them gives me a different length and yes my calipers are dead on as I trimmed some 223rem today to 1.750 and measured about 4 of them and all hit the same so the starline brass is all over the place.

I decided to run about 4 through the size die to see if it would correct it and it did not. Upon putting them back in the 100pc MTM box I also ordered I put them in upside down to make sure all of them were 38spl and they were but something off I noticed was a black or brown goop inside the primer pockets. I'm wondering if someone didn't already attempt to use these and just cleaned the pockets out and sent them back.

Send them back or load them up? In my newbie advice to myself is send them back because my OAL will be all over the place with mixed length brass?

 

[ants]

You don't have a problem with that brass.


For good education, go to the SAAMI web site and look up the brass and chamber dimensions for each cartridge type.

You'll find that the max length for 38 Special cartridge case is 1.135 to 1.155 inches.

The "trim to" length is generally selected as .010" less than maximum length. It is arbitrary. It's just a suggested trim-to.

The real question about brass length in revolver is the ability to make consistent roll crimps.
We tend to trim revolver brass to the same length so the crimp will be consistent.

Your Starline brass is not defective. You just need to decide whether to use it as is. Or trim for consistency.
If you want your crimps to be as consistent as possible, trim them all to the same length.
Or if you aren't too worried about it, just load them as is. Your choice.
(If I am shooting for best score in a very accurate revolver, I trim all exactly the same.
If I'm practicing with a snubby or just popping tin cans, I don't worry about trim.)


Note: Redding and Lee make revolver crimp dies that tolerate varying case lengths. You don't have to trim so perfectly.

 

[Axis II]

You don't have a problem with that brass.


For good education, go to the SAAMI web site and look up the brass and chamber dimensions for each cartridge type.

You'll find that the max length for 38 Special cartridge case is 1.135 to 1.155 inches.

The "trim to" length is generally selected as .010" less than maximum length. It is arbitrary. It's just a suggested trim-to.

The real question about brass length in revolver is the ability to make consistent roll crimps.
We tend to trim revolver brass to the same length so the crimp will be consistent.

Your Starline brass is not defective. You just need to decide whether to use it as is. Or trim for consistency.
If you want your crimps to be as consistent as possible, trim them all to the same length.
Or if you aren't too worried about it, just load them as is. Your choice.
(If I am shooting for best score in a very accurate revolver, I trim all exactly the same.
If I'm practicing with a snubby or just popping tin cans, I don't worry about trim.)


Note: Redding and Lee make revolver crimp dies that tolerate varying case lengths. You don't have to trim so perfectly.

I'm using a taper crimp die so should it matter? I have no way of trimming them down to the lowest 1.140. I use an ez trim for rifle and don't yet have a 38 stem. also just for piece of mind whats the goopy stuff in all the primer pockets? Its only on about 20 of them. I scraped it out with a pen tip and its like crusty/goopy. It made me think someone loaded them and wet tumbled and sent back. oh well ill use them and just clean the pocket.

 

[Demi-human]

I concur that Starline is the best brass in most calibers. However I do not think the extra handling at MidwayUSA does them any service. When ordered straight from Starline you will get one lot in a package. You will also get all one hundred. If you wish to have them correct or explain this you must call them. I do not speak well on the phone (or in general ). I have emailed them thrice, with no response.
There are slight variations, even with Starline, so size and trim is always first on my list. The only exception would be fourty-five Auto. There are too many thousands.

 

[Walkalong]

1.140-1.151.

Starline should be more consistent in length than that when new, as well as after being fired once and then resized. I would be disappointed, then get over it, then trim them. But in reality, that's not all that bad and won't cause a problem.

But you do need to size it all first and then measure it. See what you have then.

 

[Axis II]

Starline should be more consistent in length than that when new, as well as after being fired once and then resized. I would be disappointed, then get over it, then trim them. But in reality, that's not all that bad and won't cause a problem.

But you do need to size it all first and then measure it. See what you have then.

being new to the handgun stuff I just wanted to make sure all was well. I ran a couple that measure 1.140-1.142 through the sizer and they came back the same length. I didn't want to run anymore incase I had to send them back. If you guys say they are fine I will load them up. when I got my 44rem mag brass from them I measured them and all 100 were right on the money. should I trim them to the shortest length? 1.140.

 

[Walkalong]

That's what I trim .38 Spl brass to. Likely won't have to trim them again.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

If you're shooting jacketed or plated the taper crimp is good. For lead the taper will work for all but heavy loads. There you need a substantial roll crimp to keep the bullet from moving out of the case and jamming the cylinder.

 

[LoneGoose]

I am familiar with Starline, and can say that I have never been disappointed. I remember being told that they have a length variation limit of .010. When they make a case to 1.145", everything from 1.140 to 1.150 will ship.

 

[FROGO207]

They were probably caught up in the "make it as fast as you can" routine for the last few years. At the expense of sorting or that last trim/inspection. I have always received a good product from them with close tolerance case lengths. I would just trim them and load them up. The goop in the pockets was probably also from hurrying them through the cleaning process for the same reasons as stated above.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Running these through a taper crimp die won't hurt them buy as the others here said you will have inconsistent crimps. Trimming them is the only way. As far as the goop in the primer pockets it's probably lubricant from the drawing process when they were made. I use Starline a lot and have never seen anything but clean cases from them.
Í'm sure the other here are correct.

 

[mdi]

IMHO; Much ado about nuttin'. I stated reloading 38 Specials in '69 and I tried trimming as an experiment for a few hundred rounds some time in that span. I could find no benefit from trimming as far as accuracy is concerned. Even with .010" variation in case length, the difference in crimp tension is infinitesimal. I'm a confirmed tinkerer, and I have tried everything I could think of on my 38 reloads and crimp, either roll, taper, profile or no crimp, may make a difference in accuracy, theoretically, it has much less affect in real life. For a long time I crimped by feel; I adjusted the crimp die down and crimped by the feel of the handle as it crimped the case. Actually one can get pretty consistent that way...

Go slow, double check everything, don't overthink the process and have fun...

 

[Sunray]

"...38spl +P..." That brass is marked that way so it doesn't get mixed with regular ammo in the factory. The brass is exactly the same otherwise. However, all new brass needs to be checked for length, trimmed, chamfered and deburred, as required and FL resized.
SAAMI case length for .38 Special is 1.155 -.020". That's 1.155" minus 20 thou = 1.135". Your cases are fine. Just load 'em to the same OAL.

 

[Damon555]

For a long time I crimped by feel; I adjusted the crimp die down and crimped by the feel of the handle as it crimped the case. Actually one can get pretty consistent that way.

I've never done it any other way....I had no idea it was done any way other than that until the internet came along.

Ohi, once you've been loading for a while many of these questions will be moot.....along with a lot of good information the internet can be a place to learn many things that people do that are really irrelevant to the reloading process. I see so many extra little things that people do that are such a waste of time I can't imagine how they get any actual reloading done!

 

[joneb]

I would trim the long ones to 1.147" and sort from there, I would group 1.140-1.143" and 1.144-1.147". Many times the case mouths are not square, measure and then rotate 90 degrees and measure again.

 

[Axis II]

Well guys I got a Lee pilot for my lee trimmer I use on a case prep station and yes the case mouths were not square as some of them it would just cut a smidge off one side. After measuring all 100pc I had a lot under 1.145. They ranged from 1.141-1.144. I took walkalongs advice and trimmed them all to 1.140. Just for my piece of mind that everything is 100% right.

 

[Walkalong]

I'm a confirmed tinkerer, and I have tried everything I could think of on my 38 reloads and crimp, either roll, taper, profile or no crimp, may make a difference in accuracy, theoretically, it has much less affect in real life.

I like to trim for consistent crimps, although a .010 spread isn't bad at all. .005 is better.

That said, I too have been unable to shoot the difference between trimmed brass and untrimmed brass.

Maybe we're just not good enough.

 

[SARuger]

Did you size before you measured? I trim all of my revolver brass, it just makes a more consistent crimp.

 

[Axis II]

Did you size before you measured? I trim all of my revolver brass, it just makes a more consistent crimp.

yep. they were still all over the place. worst was 3-4 at 1.150. It seemed about 40 cases were under trim length. the rest were a little over or on the money.

 

[Damon555]

That said, I too have been unable to shoot the difference between trimmed brass and untrimmed brass.

Maybe we're just not good enough.

I'm in the same boat....never noticed any difference in accuracy.....Maybe the OP should have left a few in the state that they were in and compared a few groups....my money says there's not gonna be a lick of difference.

The good thing about rimmed pistol cases is that once they've been trimmed you should never need to worry about it again......but I'm no expert....I only did it once and then said to heck with it and never looked back.

 

[Schwing]

It does sound like they had been used and sent back. I have ordered many thousands of starline cases over the years and have never seen more than around .002-.003 difference in length. I have also never had them come anything but clean. I also would probably not have sent them back either.

I used to be in the "Never trim brass" camp but have completely changed my tune for revolver cases. I really don't think it matters much for minor loads but, when you start loading max magnum loads, I do think it matters. Exact length, exact bullet tension and exact roll crimp mean more consistent pressures which mean more consistent accuracy.

I even think cases that head-space on the case mouth should probably be trimmed to achieve the absolute best accuracy but... who am I kidding, that ain't going to happen.

 

[Axis II]

As far as the being dirty part I'm not really sure if they were used before. The stuff in the primer pockets is like a black/brown booger type substance. Nothing like primer crud. I have starline 44mag from midway and every single piece is right on spec so this made me think someone got a lot of these and trimmed them to under 1.145 but then I found a handful at 1.150.

I used Midways chat function today and just let them know what was going on and she said she would let the warehouse know to check them over and see if they need sent back to the manufacture. I told her it wasn't really a but having the crud in the pocket and being all different lengths was a red flag. She even told me to go and do a review of them what I told her but I told her I wasn't going to bash something that was fixed by just trimming them.

 

[ants]

I told her I wasn't going to bash something that was fixed by just trimming them.

You don't have to bash, just tell other buyers that Midway has some Starline with boogers in the primer pocket and 0.010" variation in untrimmed case length. It's a fair comment. You can share so we stop to inspect the bulk Starline we buy from them.

 

[Axis II]

You don't have to bash, just tell other buyers that Midway has some Starline with boogers in the primer pocket and 0.010" variation in untrimmed case length. It's a fair comment. You can share so we stop to inspect the bulk Starline we buy from them.

I will try and get to it tomorrow. You are right it would be helpful to let others know but ill leave the bugger stuff out. LOL. I'll see if my phone can take a pic of it and post it.