State of Ohio question.

[Jeremiah10:23]

My 21 year old son got pulled over for not stopping completely. He advised the trooper and gave his permit with his license. He was then advised by the trooper that carrying with one in the chamber is a felony. He was given a ticket and let go.

Do they just make it up as they go or have we missed something?

 

[Sgt_R]

Either the law has changed drastically since I lived there, or the cop didn't know what he was talking about. I'm thinking option #2, but if you want to be 100% sure, look up Derek Debrosse, a pro 2A attourney in Columbus, OH. He used to be my go-to guy when I lived in the state and had legal questions.

R

 

[Midwest]

Where in Ohio was this? If you rather not say, that is OK. Maybe a city ordinance? Though I thought that the state had preemption.

 

[bsctov]

I live in Ohio, and it sounds like that law enforcement officer was misinformed about the law. Just about everyone I know carries their gun with a round in the chamber, including myself. There's simply no other way, whats the point of carrying an un-cocked pistol that's not ready to be used at a moments notice?

Ohio has pre-emption, so local firearms laws would be null and void, and only state law would apply.

I would contact that department and let them know they have an officer giving out incorrect information, I would also call Ohioan's for Concealed Carry and let them know about this, incase there were others that were incorrectly told this. They are the premier CCW advocacy group in Ohio, and successfully deal with issues like this all the time by means of good diplomacy, and relationships with Ohio's law enforcement agencies.

 

[lpsharp88]

I'm pretty sure the LEO was way off base here. The state does have preemption as well. I looked here http://handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf and didn't see anything about carrying chambered or unchambered

 

[Jeremiah10:23]

This was state trooper in the town of Chesapeake. I will try to find the local office and give them a call.

 

[highorder]

My 21 year old son got pulled over for not stopping completely. He advised the trooper and gave his permit with his license. He was then advised by the trooper that carrying with one in the chamber is a felony. He was given a ticket and let go.

Do they just make it up as they go or have we missed something?

Totally false.

Figure out who the officer is and find his superiors. A polite phone call is in order.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Jeremiah:

Effective 27 March 2013, anyone with a handgun license that's valid in OH can carry (or transport) a gun just about any way he wants to. Notification is the only hoop to jump through. The prohibition against loaded magazine went away in March....

If you're licensed, and the weapon is stored someplace where you can't get to it without getting out of the car, for example, if it's loaded you should still notify. Actually transporting it that way is fine.

If you're unlicensed (or even if you are licensed) and store the weapon where you can't get to it easily, you're not considered to be carrying it (loaded magazines or no, but nothing in the chamber), and licensees don't have to notify. (Unlicensed folks never have to notifiy.) It appears that you should store the magazines in outside pockets of a range bag, for example, or otherwise separately from the gun if you're unlicensed. I'm not sure about that.

The spirit of the law, for the unlicensed, seems to require multiple overt acts to get to the weapon, and make it ready, giving the Officer plenty of time to take control of the situation. If you're licensed, finally, it's presumed that since it's OK for that gun to be loaded and on your hip or someplace about as easy to reach, no other restrictions make sense anyway.

We did have an "in a holster" requirement should you wish to carry a loaded handgun as a licensee. It went away in March, too. I sort of liked that, but with the proviso that you did so safely. On the floor of the car is asking for trouble, for example (instead of a gun safe of some kind). Licensees, for their own safety, should secure weapons that are in easy reach, too, rather than hope they don't go flying in an accident....

As of 27 March, too, rifle magazines need not be unloaded, licensed or not, but transporting a long gun with a magazine in place without a round in the chamber is a no-no. (As is having one in the chamber.) I'd really like to be able to toss my shotgun on the front seat loaded and ready, but I prefer to stay out of those areas anyway .

Regards,

 

[Deanimator]

Assuming the story is accurate, the cop is an imbecile.

There is NO state law mandating an empty chamber and any gun law below state level is preempted and invalid.

I would no more take legal advice from the average cop than I'd take dietary advice from Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

[Deanimator]

I live in Ohio, and it sounds like that law enforcement officer was misinformed about the law. Just about everyone I know carries their gun with a round in the chamber, including myself. There's simply no other way, whats the point of carrying an un-cocked pistol that's not ready to be used at a moments notice?

A recent noteworthy self-defense situation involved a guy in a Dayton gas station getting jumped by two drug addled morons. They hit him simultaneously from front and rear. He managed to hold them off just long enough to draw and fire, hitting one of his assailants twice, causing the second to flee. By his own admission, had the victim not been carrying with a round in the chamber, he probably would have been overwhelmed and disarmed.

This all took place on video, which has received WORLDWIDE exposure. The victim was not arrested, charged, or indicted. If he was committing a "felony", you'd think that SOMEBODY, would have thought to MENTION it, never mind actually arrest and charge him for it.

Gas station shooting

 

[yzguy87]

I would give the local post a call too. I respect leo's but sometimes they are way off base.

 

[gopguy]

My 21 year old son got pulled over for not stopping completely. He advised the trooper and gave his permit with his license. He was then advised by the trooper that carrying with one in the chamber is a felony. He was given a ticket and let go.

Do they just make it up as they go or have we missed something?

I am with Buckeye Firearms Association, the trooper blew it big time. Fight it. This is pretty stunning considering we are approaching ten years of concealed carry in this state...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/index.php

 

[Willie Sutton]

Fight what?

From what I read by the OP, his son was pulled over and given a traffic ticket for not coming to a complete stop.

The conversation about the gun seems to have been pretty casual, the cop (although not perfectly informed) did not do anything other than make conversation, and it did not result in anything other than "see ya 'round" along with a traffic summons.



Willie


.

 

[Deanimator]

The conversation about the gun seems to have been pretty casual, the cop (although not perfectly informed) did not do anything other than make conversation, and it did not result in anything other than "see ya 'round" along with a traffic summons.

What that cop did was give out asinine "advice" that if followed, could end up with the recipient dead, and a violent felon in possession of a firearm. But he couldn't just leave it as simply his own stupid "idea", he had to put the armed force of the state behind it. He didn't say, "I think it's a bad idea." He said it was a "FELONY". Advice you can take or leave. What happens when you get caught committing a felony?

Yeah, that's the kind of thing you should just let go...

 

[SMMAssociates]

Deanimator:

+1....

One of the problems here in OH over the last few years, if not all the way back to 2004, has been OSP Troopers not being properly trained in the law, and/or not being schooled in the changes that have been made to get rid of some of the silly (and mean-spirited in many cases) rules.

Not applicable to licensees, but for a handgun, until 27 March, 2013, having a loaded magazine in your vehicle made any firearm in the vehicle loaded for the purposes of laws against transporting loaded handguns. The law, after 27 March, still requires nothing in the chamber/cylinder for unlicensed transport of handguns, but you no longer have to empty the magazines. You DO need to keep the loaded magazines somewhere away from the gun, but it appears that a pocket on the outside of a range bag is sufficient. Long guns no longer require empty magazines, either, but licensees have no "permission" to transport them loaded either.

Boring everybody with that minute description, but the need for LEO's to know what's now legal avoids all kinds of problems. OSP has avoided teaching them that.... If the OP's son had been arrested for the loaded chamber "violation", while he likely would have eventually prevailed, it might have cost a few bucks (big bills ), and might have involved a stay in the greybar, too, as well as OSP pulling overtime to find a charge that might be harder to fight....

THAT'S the concern here....

Regards,

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^^^^ <yawn>....

If the cop really thought it was a felony he would have arrested him.

If a cop makes an arrest on this, it would take about a two minute reading of the statute by any judge at arraignment to toss it out, and any prosecutor bringing it before a judge would be ridiculed. Not to mention the financial windfall that anyone so arrested would earn at the following civil lawsuit.


So... fight what? The *traffic ticket*? :banghead:


Write a polite letter to the department and ask that a memo be sent out to the patrol officers to spare anyone further embarassment. Seems like the cop was probably a good guy, albeit one who needs to read the memo. Cops don't generally let off people who they *really* think are felons.


Willie


.

 

[Deanimator]

Write a polite letter to the department and ask that a memo be sent out to the patrol officers to spare anyone further embarassment. Seems like the cop was probably a good guy, albeit one who needs to read the memo. Cops don't generally let off people who they *really* think are felons.

If he didn't *really* think he was a felon, WHY did he say it?

Was he an idiot, a liar or both?

 

[JERRY]

a casual conversation, has as much weight as who he thinks will win the super bowl......

 

[gopguy]

Fight what?

From what I read by the OP, his son was pulled over and given a traffic ticket for not coming to a complete stop.

The conversation about the gun seems to have been pretty casual, the cop (although not perfectly informed) did not do anything other than make conversation, and it did not result in anything other than "see ya 'round" along with a traffic summons.

No, he said

He was given a ticket and let go.

What the ticket was for was not clear. I was saying if it was over the gun, fight it.

 

[Deanimator]

a casual conversation, has as much weight as who he thinks will win the super bowl......

A "casual conversation" that you can't just walk away from isn't so "casual"...

 

[JERRY]

A "casual conversation" that you can't just walk away from isn't so "casual"...

from what i read, he wasnt stopped so they could talk... or did i miss something?

 

[Willie Sutton]

"What the ticket was for was not clear. I was saying if it was over the gun, fight it."


You don't get a ticket for a felony.

You get a ticket for a traffic offense.


Remove tin foil hat and read the OP's post with comprehension.

Try it in easy steps:

1: He was stopped for a minor traffic offense.

2: He informed the LEO that he was carrying (Ohio Law requires this).

3: He produced his CCW.

4: What seems to be an informal discussion took place regarding his method of carry.

5: The LEO seems to not have been the sharpest at the laws regarding CCW.

But:

6: The driver was not arrested for anything, which would have been the MOST CERTAIN outcome if he had been carrying illegally. State Troopers don't "overlook" felonies.

and

7: Received a summons, which by any method of reasoning was for the traffic offense.



Bark less, Wag more. Not every LEO has a law degree or reads every firearms blog published. With thousands of laws to keep straight it's forgivable for LEO's to need to look them up and to not be expert in all of them. A casual comment, even if wrong, not folllowed up by an arrest is just... a conversation. Cops are people too.




Willie

.

 

[Deanimator]

from what i read, he wasnt stopped so they could talk... or did i miss something?

When the trooper started waxing ignorant, could he tell him that he had his head up his fourth point of contact and just leave?

Nobody should be able to use the implied power of deadly force in order to impose their [ignorant] opinions on another.

The trooper had no more business imposing his stupid opinions on gun laws on a captive audience than he would to proselytize for the Church of Scientology.

The gun had NOTHING to do with the traffic stop, and did not Ohio impose an asinine requirement for notification, the subject of the gun never would have come up. Regardless, the trooper had no business bringing up the subject, whether he was demonstrating ignorance or dishonesty.

NOBODY should be FORCED at pain of arrest (or worse) to listen to somebody verbally demonstrate his lack of fitness for his job position.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^

Easy fix:

Stop at stop signs....

It's less stressful than that foil hat and confrontational attitude.



When the trooper started waxing ignorant, could he tell him that he had his head up his fourth point of contact and just leave?


Absolutely. And then he could have *really* be arrested, or at the very least have been treated with the same respect that he showed. Such as a fine tooth comb inspection of the car, etc... how many violations can be written up? Uhh.... many.

Wise men in this situation smile and say "Have a nice day, officer, thanks for your service".





Willie


.

 

[Deanimator]

It's less stressful than that foil hat and confrontational attitude.

What's more "foil hat" than forcing somebody to listen to you make up nonexistent laws?

Besides, I've been in vehicles stopped in pretext stops for things that were obvious lies, like "weaving", when it was clear that the cop was just trolling for drunks at night. If a cop stops you for something he knows you weren't doing, is it ok for him to also force you to listen to him make up imaginary "laws"?