State: Purge felon voters on list (40K voters in Florida, ~57K were purged in 2000)

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w4rma

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State: Purge felon voters on list

State officials order local elections supervisors to begin purging voter rolls of felons who don't have the right to vote. The measure may affect as many as 40,000 voters.

BY GARY FINEOUT
[email protected]



TALLAHASSEE - Six months before a presidential election that is again expected to be decided by a narrow margin in Florida, state officials ordered local election supervisors Wednesday to begin purging voter rolls of felons -- a move that may take as many as 40,000 people off the rolls, many of them likely to be black Democrats.

The state Division of Elections is turning the list over to local election supervisors in all 67 counties, and has ordered them to make sure to remove any felons whose voting rights have not been restored. The state says a preliminary check shows as many as 40,000 former felons are still registered to vote.

''As part of our quality assurance testing, felon and clemency information was run against a copy of the current voter registration database and has identified over 40,000 potential felon matches statewide,'' wrote Ed Kast, director of the state Division of Elections, in a memo sent out to election supervisors on Wednesday.

The issue of felon voting became controversial after the contested 2000 presidential election, when critics said Florida used out-of-state lists to purge former felons, taking voting rights away from people who had committed crimes outside the state but had had their voting rights restored in those other states.

During the 2000 election, some local election supervisors refused to purge their rolls based on the state list, saying they had no faith in how the list was compiled.

NEW DATABASE

State election officials said Wednesday they are relying on a new $2 million database developed after the 2000 election fiasco, which saw George W. Bush win Florida by 537 votes. And they reminded local election officials that under a 2001 state law, they must comply and purge anyone who fails to contest the state's information.

A spokeswoman for Secretary of State Glenda Hood, who oversees the state elections office, defended the new voter list, which is drawn exclusively from Florida arrests.

But some Democratic legislators and liberal groups that sued Florida over the purging of the list in 2000 remain skeptical.

''I'm glad they are using Florida data only and not Texas data,'' said Rep. Chris Smith, a Fort Lauderdale Democrat. ``But it's still disturbing, and I don't trust any numbers that the secretary of state gives.''

One election supervisor, Ion Sancho of Leon County, was suspicious of why state officials are pressing ahead to use the felon list this year.

''Why is the state doing this now?'' said Sancho, who is a Democrat. ``What kind of error rate will come with these lists?''

'MANDATORY' MOVE

Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for Hood, said the state is moving ahead with the list because it is ''mandatory'' under state law. She also noted the new list has the approval of the U.S. Department of Justice, which must clear any changes to voting procedures, as well as the NAACP, which in 2001 sued the state over the list used before the presidential election.

''Part of the NAACP settlement was that the Division of Elections use more stringent matching criteria,'' Nash said. ``We feel confident that the same mistakes made in 2000 will not be repeated.''

Adora Obi Nweze, president of the Florida chapter of the NAACP, said the group is ''optimistic'' that there would not be a repeat of what happened in 2000.

''We know the state is capable of making all sorts of errors, they done it before,'' Nweze said. ``We are certainly hoping it won't happen again.''

Florida is one of just a handful of states that does not automatically restore the voting rights of convicted criminals once they leave prison. Instead, felons must ask for the restoration, which in many instances requires approval by the governor and other elected officials.

MANY Democrats

Any move to eliminate thousands of felons from voter lists would probably aid President Bush and Republican candidates. State records since 1990 show that even though blacks are nowhere near a majority of the state's population, they make up a majority of those serving time in state prisons. And a large majority of blacks traditionally vote Democratic.

Four years ago, Florida came under fire because it hired an Atlanta company to come up with a statewide list of voters that should be purged. One list given out before the 2000 election contained the names of 42,000 voters who were reportedly felons or dead or registered to vote in more than one county.

One lawyer for the People for the American Way Foundation, which participated in the 2001 lawsuit, contended that this list included 2,800 voters from states that automatically restored civil rights.

Nash said Wednesday that the new list has been provided to all 67 election supervisors, but that not all of them have yet reported back their findings to state election officials.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/8600742.htm

In 2000 it was 57,700 voters, purged by name, gender, birthdate and race.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1

There were ALOT of "mistakes" in 2000. They even purged a black election supervisor. The list was built by similarities in name, race, gender and birthdate in 2000.
 
Your point?

This has been the law in Florida for years. There are provisions to have voting rights restored. Any felons know that they have to apply to have their voting rights restored. If they are to dumb or to lazy to do this they have no business voting anyway.

The only reason the Dems make an issue of this is that apparently convicted felons are a major Democratic voting block. They are proud of this. Then they wonder why conservatives make fun of them.:what:
 
longrifleman, the list uses the names, races and birthdates of felons. Then they scour public records for similar sounding names, birthdates and the race. The list included MANY false positives in 2000. That means that MANY people (mostly black people) who had *never* seen the inside of a jail cell had their names removed from the voting rolls because a black felon with a similar name existed at some point in Florida.
 
Maybe black folks need to ask why they are so overrepresented in prison and work on that before complaining about bad recordkeeping. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

Of course the govt database is messed up. This is the govt. Govt and messed up are interchangeable terms. If you expect perfection don't look to govt. I know liberals think if it's govt it's gotta be good but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

So what is your solution? Eliminate any restriction on voting by the felons? How do you keep the database up to date? I don't want to see anyone denied the right to vote but every individual has to take some initative to make sure their own records are correct. If this is a problem in the area I would be at the regristrars office to make sure my name was ok. Again, if you don't care enough about your vote to do this you probably should'nt be voting anyway.

Is this harsh? Probably. I don't care. We have way too many dumb people voting as it is. For every person who has taken the time to become informed about the issues, studied history and economics, it only takes one doofus to cancel out that vote. And if doofus brings a friend to the polls the doofuses of the world win the election. Look around. I think that has been happening. Do you like the results?
 
Any move to eliminate thousands of felons from voter lists would probably aid President Bush and Republican candidates.

What more really needs to be said about politics in our country than this?
 
What more really needs to be said about politics in our country than this?
I'd say it is a good sign because they could have done this a week before the election. By doing it 6 months early, those who are incorrectly removed from the list will have time to correct the error and still vote. Could not a person say that leaving 40,000 ineligible voters on the polls would benefit Kerry and the Democrats?
 
I agree, HKmp5sd.....

It is a sensible move to purge the felons ealry enough to allow for correction of any mistakes.

w4rma;

It looks like the Democrats are going to need every one of those felon votes to add to their deceased votes.:D
 
I'll try to keep this simple, this time. The problem isn't the scrubbing of legitimate ex-felons (To my knowledge, that isn't unconstitutional). The problem is the scrubbing of legitimate non-ex-felons.

…
My office carefully went through the scrub list and discovered that at minimum, 90.2 percent of the people were completely innocent of any crime – except for being African American. We didn’t have to guess about that, because next to each voter’s name was their race.

When I questioned Harris’ office about the high percentage of African Americans on the scrub list, they responded, “Well, you know how many black people commit crimes.â€
…
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=217&row=2
 
I keep thinking I've already commented on this, somewhere. Deja vu all over again, as the fella said, I guess.

W4rma, given the publicity over the incomplete records in danged near all departments of government at all levels in all states*, why is (lemme call it) "duplicate scrubbing" so bad?

Look: People move without going to the trouble of leaving a forwarding address. Let's say there are two Willie Lee Washingtons; which one is the felon? If you can't tell from the phone book or from the records as to residency, how do you distinguish between them?

Now, if the "good" Willie Lee Washington decides that he shouldn't have been deleted from the voting registration list, he has plenty of time to get to the County Clerk's office and register--it's almost five full months.

Now, if the "good" WLW doesn't care to keep his address and phone number up to date with the post office and telephone company, or just pay basic attention to his voting status, his lack of responsibility is not your problem nor my problem nor Jeb Bush's problem.

Voting is your right. Ensuring your status as to that right is your responsibility. It's called "being an adult".

Art

* It is acknowledged that in some states, criminal records in the stacks of files or in the computers is around 66%. I think the best runs toward 83% or some such.
 
If you commit a felony in Florida, you lose your right to vote there, and you‘re “scrubbed†from the rolls. You become a non-citizen, like in the old Soviet Union. This is not the case in most other states; it’s an uncivilized vestige of the Deep South.
I wonder why this person isn't as concerned about felons losing the right to own firearms for the rest of their life just as passionately as he is concerned about their voting rights. Might it have something to do with the fact firearm rights of felons have nothing to do with getting Democrats elected to office?

I also find it absurd to state that out of 57,700 names removed from the voting lists, 90.2% were black with no criminal record. That is 52,045 people. There were only 5,655 felons of any race on the list? If these numbers are accurate, where do the 8,000 persons convicted of misdemeanor crimes show up? Is there any legitimate source for these statistics? Does anyone actually believe that 52 THOUSAND eligible voters in the State of Florida were not allowed to vote? (Anyone other than Michael Moore, that is)
 
Here is the start of the problem:

My office carefully went through the scrub list and discovered that at minimum, 90.2 percent of the people were completely innocent of any crime – except for being African American. We didn’t have to guess about that, because next to each voter’s name was their race.

If the people who run the govt really intendend to live up to this:

Amendment XIV (1868)

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

there would be no reason for them to ask how much melanin you have in your skin or where your grandparents came from.

I have decided that the only proper answer to some busybody govt question reguarding my race is : HUMAN.


Or Bledkifg from Alpha Centauri III if I feel like messin with 'em.:neener:
 
IMHO, what they should have done after the 2000 election, in all states, was to start weeding out and a PROSECUTING people who voted illegally. It should have been going on steady for the past three and one half years with regular news realeases about it. They can b*^&h about it all they want, but I suspect a S%*tload of people illegally voted for Gore in Florida and Bush still won. Dead people have also been voting for many years, mostly Democrat. LBJ was a past master at it. If there were steady prosecutions and convictions for voter fraud we would have a cleaner election this time around. Maybe cleaner was the right work : )

TEX
 
Though I agree with W4RMA's basic point that we shouldn't be denying folks their right to vote, I also agree with Art that at some point you have to be an adult and check your status - any type program like this done by the beaurocrats is gonna have screw ups.

So I guess I'm saying its not part of Jeb Bush's "Republican Attack Machine":rolleyes: but for cripes sakes fellas, try to get the list right.

I also am wondering who this group is that says 90.2 percent of the list is in error. Sounds like they might be the CAIR of voting rights:p
 
Anybody here from Texas have their voter registration card handy? I'm in Georgia at the moment, and my card is in Terlingua. Anyhow, I don't recall anything about race on the card. So, if I'm correct, how could it be known that somebody is not a snow-white Caucasian, other than a guess from some names (Latin, Asian, etc.)?

Art
 
While I do tend to vote Republican, I'm hesitent to support the removal of anyone's right to vote.

The state of Florida needs to make every attempt to make sure that the people they are removing from the voting rolls have lost their right to vote.

Voting is a VERY important right. Of course stopping voter fraud is equally important because it has the same effect as not allowing some people to vote.

However, that's probably a subject for a different thread.
 
Art, I just pulled my registration out and there is no category for race on it. Why would they have that on a voter registration card anyway? I.D.?

The tejas dems were smarter than the Florida folks. I think it was Rep Sheila Jackson Lee out of Houston who got a bill pushed through-something about no taxation without representation. Funny, that. A bigoted liberal who actually read the DOI?
 
Here is some more information.

…
The company, now a subsidiary of ChoicePoint of Atlanta, produced a list of 42,389 "probable" and "possible" felons before last year's election. The list identified thousands of legal voters as criminals, forcing them to prove their innocence before they could cast a ballot.
…
State officials told DBT to use broad parameters to identify as many likely felons as possible, despite warnings that this would disenfranchise legitimate voters.

County elections supervisors were told not to discount names on the list, even if they didn't match.

Records used to create the felon list were sometimes wrong. A state database of felons wrongly included dozens of people whose crimes were reduced to misdemeanors. Furthermore, clemency records were incomplete.
…
They simply followed the state's orders, handed down by officials who were too cavalier about the felon purge. James Lee, a spokesman for ChoicePoint, said his company will never again get involved in cleansing voting rolls.

"We are not confident any of the methods used today can guarantee legal voters will not be wrongfully denied the right to vote," Lee told a group of Atlanta-area black lawmakers in March.
…
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0527-03.htm
I don't recall anything about race on the card. So, if I'm correct, how could it be known that somebody is not a snow-white Caucasian, other than a guess from some names (Latin, Asian, etc.)?
…
ChoicePoint maintains databases of public records, such as court documents and property records, which 7,500 law enforcement agencies across the U.S. use to help in their investigations. Private businesses, such as insurance companies, also use them to conduct fraud mitigation and background checks, Lee said.

Because information is often incorrect in the source documents, Lee said, it would be appropriate for regulation like the Fair Credit Reporting Act. That law lets individuals review their credit reports and submit requests for changes. ChoicePoint, however, isn't regulated by the act.
…
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,67585,00.html

…
In 1998, elections officials with the secretary of state's office secretly directed DBT to use "fuzzy" matches of first names such as John, Johnny and Joan. As a result, voter Johnny Little of Leon County was not allowed to vote in 2000, because of a crime committed by one Johnnie Little of "locale unknown." In this case, the legal names did not match, but the two Littles' birth date and race (both are black) did. Johnny Little was tagged for removal from voter rolls. Also, the state, over the objections of DBT, also ordered the company to ignore suffixes such as "Jr." and "II," and mismatches of middle initials.

As part of the NAACP's suit against Florida, ChoicePoint agreed to review all the scrub lists. The company's report, dated Aug. 19, 2002, indicates that of the 94,000 names on the lists, only 3,000 match the nine key criteria (including social security number) that experts -- including DBT’s senior vice president, George Bruder -- have stated is necessary to avoid misidentification.
…
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/index2.html

…
"We did run some number stats and the number of blacks [on the list] was higher than expected for our population," says Chuck Smith, a statistician for the county. Iorio acknowledged that African-Americans made up 54 percent of the people on the original felons list, though they constitute only 11.6 percent of Hillsborough's voting population.
…
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/index.html

…
Voters whose name, birth date and gender loosely matched that of a felon anywhere in America were targeted for removal. And so one Thomas Butler (of several in Florida) was tagged because a "Thomas Butler Cooper Jr." of Ohio was convicted of a crime. The legacy of slavery -- commonality of black names -- aided the racial bias of the "scrub list."
…
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=222&row=1

The list is created using **similar** names, addresses, birthdates, etc. The similarity of black names and the disproportionate number of blacks in prison allows this list to disenfranchise thousands of blacks who have never before been accused of a felony. The important thing to remember is that these are not exact matches and little is done (none at all in most counties) to verify whether the names are correct.
 
The Florida voter card (at least in my county) does have the race listed. They use a number for each race, white being 5. There used to be a separate box listing race, but now the number is merely present unmarked as to its purpose.

Since this is a voter "identification card", it only makes sense to list the name, sex, race, DOB and any other information they may need to ensure the person voting is the actual voter. That makes it easier to prove the name on the "felon" list isn't you.
 
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