statistics: Guns used in self defense?

[lobo9er]

I did a search nothing came up. If anyone has numbers from both sides of the fence it would be helpful. I remember reading a pro-gun # was in the millions, and coming from an anti-gun source it was still hundreds of thousands. I m sure this has and is being discussed if anyone could help me out that would be great thanks.

 

[Phil Lee]

Search old threads for mention of Kleck -- use Google to search for Kleck site:thehighroad.org

 

[JayBird]

Just start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

 

[bldsmith]

Here's a gun facts page that covers a bunch of statistics and gives references. One of the best IRT the OP was president Clinton's commission on this in 1994. Showed 1.4 million with an estimated %50 low reporting. So around 2.4 million per year with most never having to fire a shot.

 

[ScottieG59]

Reporting is definitely not 100%. If I recall it right, collecting better data was one of the Obama Executive Orders.

One additional problem is the lack of details in the figures. Many of the police and private gun owner justified uses of firearms is lumped in along with the criminal statistics.

Even if you try to tally the numbers, you will depend on data collected inconsistently.

In the end, it does not matter what the numbers say. We have the right to defend ourselves and we have the right to have the means to do so. The Constitution recognizes the right to keep and bear arms; it does not create the right. There is no test required to determine if the right used enough to be preserved.

 

[vito]

I am sure that many instances of guns being used to prevent a crime never are reported to authorities. Even where concealed carry is legal, think about the likely hassle if you call 911 with the following: "I was going out to my car when a thug approached me yelling "give me your wallet and car keys". I drew my gun and the perp ran away." The police arrive and ask for a statement, they also ask to see your gun, which might or might not get taken as evidence. You are detained at the scene, or at the station house while your name and vehicle and other identifying characteristics are run through the system to see if YOU are wanted on a warrant or should be a suspect in other crimes. Faced with this possibility, you don't call 911 but continue on your way with the self assurance that you defended yourself and hopefully put the fear of God into a thug who might not try it again. My guess is that this or similar situations happen frequently but never get counted by anyone except the gun owner himself.

 

[BBQJOE]

In the end, it does not matter what the numbers say. We have the right to defend ourselves and we have the right to have the means to do so. The Constitution recognizes the right to keep and bear arms; it does not create the right. There is no test required to determine if the right used enough to be preserved.

This is a good point.
Last night I started to make a post about how tired I am of it seeming that every gun related incident is headline news.
It also seems articles like "The Armed Citizen" should be pages and pages long, so we can distribute them everywhere for everyone to see.
But it probably wouldn't amount to a hill of beans to the anti's.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Summary of the thirteen surveys on DGU listed by Kleck & Gertz 1995.

 FREQUENCY OF DEFENSIVE GUN USE 
 from Kleck and Gertz 1995 Table 1                     - Excluded -    
                                      Gun     Recall  Against  By Mil  
     Survey:    Year:  Area:  Sample: Type:   Period: Animal: Police:  
                                                                   
  1. Field      1976   Calif.  NiA     Hgun    [a]      No      Yes     
  2. Bordua     1977   Ill.    NiA     All     Ever     No      No      
  3. Cambridge  1978   U.S.    NiA     Hgun    Ever     No      No      
  4. DMIa       1978   U.S.    RgV     All     Ever     No      Yes     
  5. DMIb       1978   U.S.    RgV     All     Ever     Yes     Yes     
  6. Hart       1981   U.S.    RgV     Hgun    5 yr     Yes     Yes     
  7. Ohio       1982   Ohio    Res     Hgun    Ever     No      No      
  8. Time/CNN   1989   U.S.    Own     All     Ever     No      Yes     
  9. Mauser     1990   U.S.    Res     All     5 yrs.   Yes     Yes     
 10. Gallup     1991   U.S.    NiA     All     Ever     No      No      
 11. Gallup     1993   U.S.    NiA     All     Ever     No      Yes     
 12. L.A. Times 1994   U.S.    NiA     All     Ever     No      Yes     
 13. Tarrance   1994   U.S.    NiA     All     5 yrs.   Yes     Yes

                Defensive question    % Who       [b] Implied           
     Survey:    Ask of:   Ref to:   Used: Fired:  number DGUs:
                                                          
  1. Field       All Rs         R    [a]    2.9     3,052,717    
  2. Bordua      All Rs         R     5.0   n.a.    1,414,544    
  3. Cambridge   Hgun own       R    18    12            n.a.    
  4. DMIa        All Rs     Hshld    15     6       2,141,512    
  5. DMIb        All Rs     Hshld     7     n.a.    1,098,409    
  6. Hart        All Rs     Hshld     4     n.a.    1,797,461    
  7. Ohio        Hgun hshld     R     6.5   2.6       771,043    
  8. Time/CNN    Gun own    Hshld     n.a.  9-16[e]      n.a.    
  9. Mauser      All            R     3.79  n.a.    1,487,342    
 10. Gallup      hgun hshld     R     8     n.a.      777,153    
 11. Gallup      Gun own        R    11     n.a.    1,621,377    
 12. L.A. Times  All            R     8[c]  n.a.    3,609,682    
 13. Tarrance    All        Hshld   1/2[d]  n.a.      764,036    

   ABBREV KEY:                             Own   Gun owners             
   NiA   Non-instititionalized Adult       Hgun  Handgun                
   RgV   Register Voter                    R     Respondent to survey   
   Res   Resident                          Hshld Household

  1. Field Institute, Tabulations of the Findings of a Study of 
     Handgun Ownership and Access Among a Cross Section of the 
     California Adult Public (1976).
  2. David J. Bordua et al., Illinios Law Enforcement Commission, 
     Patterns of Firearms Ownership, Regulation and Use in 
     Illinios (1979).
  3. Cambridge Reports, Inc., an Analysis of Public Attitudes Towards 
     Handgun Control (1978).
  4. DMIa & 5. DMIb from DMI (Decision/Making/Information), 
     Attitudes of the American Electorate Toward Gun Control (1979). 
  6. Peter D. Hart Research Associates, Violence in America Survey
     October 1981.
  7. The Ohio Statistical Analysis Center, Ohio Citizen Attitudes 
     Concerning Crime and Criminal Justice (1982).
  8. H. Quinley, Memorandum reporting results from Time/CNN Poll of Gun
     Owners, dated Feb. 6, 1990 (1990).
  9. Gary A. Mauser, Firearms and Self-defense: The Canadian Case,  
     Presented at the Annual Meetings of the American Society of 
     Criminology (Oct. 28, 1993).
 10. Gallup Poll 1991,  
 11. Gallup Poll 1993,  
 12. L.A. Times poll, and 
 13. Tarrance poll.  (10-13) were taken from a search of the 
     DIALOG Public Opinion online computer database.

 Notes:
 [a]. Field recall period: 1 yr, 2 yr and Ever; Use: 1.4%, 3% and 8.6%.
 [b]. Estimated annual number of defensive uses of guns of all types 
      against humans, excluding uses connected with military or police 
      duties, after any necessary adjustments were made, for U.S., 1993. 
      Adjustments are explained in detail in Gary Kleck, "Guns and 
      Self-Defense", on file with the School of Criminology and Criminal
      Justice, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL, 1994.
 [c]. Covered only uses outside the home.
 [d]. 1% of respondents, 2% of households.
 [e]. 9% fired gun for self-protection, 7% used gun "to scare someone."
      An unknown share of the latter could be defensive uses not 
      overlapping with the former.

As Kleck & Gertz 1995 pointed out, the sample selection (registered
voters, non-institutionaised adult, handgun owner, gun owner resident)
and the questions asked meant each one of these surveys was measuring
something different and they cannot be directly compared, especially
since the samples represent different years.

adapted from
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime:
The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Table 1,
Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The Kleck and Gertz National Self-Defense Survey NSDS (1993, article 1995) gave 2.4 million DGU per year. Dataset available for replication.

The Police Foundation National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms NSPOF (1994, NIJ Research in Brief report 1997) gave 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million people. Dataset available for replication. The authors of the NIJ report Cook and Ludwig are big fans of the National Crime Victimization Survey NCVS which gave only 108,000 DGUs (but only a minority of the NCVS sample are ever asked a DGU question). Cook and Ludwig spendt a couple of pages in the NSPOF report trying to explain away the 4.7 million DGUs.

John Lott's documented 2002 DGU survey gave 2.0 million DGU per year. Dataset available for replication.

Lott's lost 1997 DGU survey gave 2.1 million DGU per year, but the dataset is unavailable for replication, and generated a lot of controversy between Sep 2002-Apr 2003. However, nobody has stepped forward to do a DGU survey to confirm or refute Lott's results. Some don't wanna believe, some think it's consistent with the 14 out of 15 national surveys on the subject.

The 1981 Hart survey that projected 1.8 million DGU per year, but it (done for a pro gun control group) has been lost and the dataset is unavailable for replication.

 

[Solo]

Just keep in mind no statistical analysis is perfect, and that they all have flaws, sometimes quite serious ones.

 

[brickeyee]

If I recall it right, collecting better data was one of the Obama Executive Orders.

Defensive gun uses is not the data they are going to collect.