dragongoddess
member
Was wondering if the supply of Milsurp rifles were drying up. Reason for the drying up and which ones should one get before they are all gone.
Status of Milsurp rifles
- Thread starter dragongoddess
- Start date
- Status
Technosavant
Member
Supplies tend to ebb and flow, depending on popularity at the moment, legal status, relations with the other nations, and remaining supply.
It looks like the supply of K31s really IS drying up, so if you wanted to start with a milsurp rifle, I'd begin with that one. It's maybe not the best starter milsurp, but with supplies drying up, it is my guess that there won't be any more sooner rather than later (the supplies are already much tighter than they were even 6 months ago).
The Yugo 59/66, while drying up for some grades (it's hard to find any new/unissued ones anymore), is still plentiful in other grades.
Other guns, like the Mosin-Nagants, will likely be available for quite some time to come- the Russians made millions of them, and they'll keep selling them (it's a good source for foreign cash).
It looks like the supply of K31s really IS drying up, so if you wanted to start with a milsurp rifle, I'd begin with that one. It's maybe not the best starter milsurp, but with supplies drying up, it is my guess that there won't be any more sooner rather than later (the supplies are already much tighter than they were even 6 months ago).
The Yugo 59/66, while drying up for some grades (it's hard to find any new/unissued ones anymore), is still plentiful in other grades.
Other guns, like the Mosin-Nagants, will likely be available for quite some time to come- the Russians made millions of them, and they'll keep selling them (it's a good source for foreign cash).
I hope they're around for a while still. There's still a few I want. german k98, US M1917, and maybe a SMLE 303.
The Garand I bought back in the late 80s has a barrel that was stamped with an importer's name. I know the gov. said back then "ok, you can import all this stuff, but you have to stamp it on a metal part...". Basically, ruin the guns, right? Or at least ruin any collectibility.
I'm just saying I don't want to buy another milsurp that has an import stamp.
The Garand I bought back in the late 80s has a barrel that was stamped with an importer's name. I know the gov. said back then "ok, you can import all this stuff, but you have to stamp it on a metal part...". Basically, ruin the guns, right? Or at least ruin any collectibility.
I'm just saying I don't want to buy another milsurp that has an import stamp.
silverlance
Member
milsurp grap list
I disagree about the k31 - there is still quite a bit of these rifles left, and there will be for a good time longer since very few shooters other than experienced ones or collectors are willing to deal with the prospect of trying to feed a gun that, aside from surplus ammo, costs a minimum of $12 for 20 rounds - more than 50c a round.
Even Surplus ain't cheap - www.ammoman.com has 7.5swiss @ 480 rounds for $199, which equates to roughly 42 cents a round (check my math). The commercial quality stuff for 7.5swiss, by the way, runs about $30 for 20.
...
however, here's what you really should be buying:
German K98: not the capture or foreign built ones, I'm referring to the real ones. as of right now only one seller on the Top 10 reputable seller list has them - www.classicarms.us starting @ $189 up to $239. If you do a gunbroker search, k31s go for as little as well under $100. K98s however are not available for less than $250. That tells us something... people with german k98s are keeping them.
Steyr Mannlichers: hard to find guns, also hard to find ammo. Big 5 sells them - if you don't mind guns whose stocks have been painted over hard with thick red oil paint. yech.
Those repro mosin snipers: while it's true that they are NOT authentic snipers, they are done very very well. and, the hex reciever inter-war year rifles that they are built off of are very good rifles in their own right.
yugo m48a. good stuff.
I disagree about the k31 - there is still quite a bit of these rifles left, and there will be for a good time longer since very few shooters other than experienced ones or collectors are willing to deal with the prospect of trying to feed a gun that, aside from surplus ammo, costs a minimum of $12 for 20 rounds - more than 50c a round.
Even Surplus ain't cheap - www.ammoman.com has 7.5swiss @ 480 rounds for $199, which equates to roughly 42 cents a round (check my math). The commercial quality stuff for 7.5swiss, by the way, runs about $30 for 20.
...
however, here's what you really should be buying:
German K98: not the capture or foreign built ones, I'm referring to the real ones. as of right now only one seller on the Top 10 reputable seller list has them - www.classicarms.us starting @ $189 up to $239. If you do a gunbroker search, k31s go for as little as well under $100. K98s however are not available for less than $250. That tells us something... people with german k98s are keeping them.
Steyr Mannlichers: hard to find guns, also hard to find ammo. Big 5 sells them - if you don't mind guns whose stocks have been painted over hard with thick red oil paint. yech.
Those repro mosin snipers: while it's true that they are NOT authentic snipers, they are done very very well. and, the hex reciever inter-war year rifles that they are built off of are very good rifles in their own right.
yugo m48a. good stuff.
alamo
Member
The ones Classic Arms sells are Russian captures. All of the 98Ks sold by places like SOG, AIM, etc. are RCs. They may have an occasional one that's not but they would say so and it wouldn't sell for $189-239.
Interordnance has some also:
http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv
ocabj
Member
Well, if by "all gone" you mean everything is bought up and in private collections, then you should definitely get lots of Garands.
Dr. Dickie
Member
Yep, I just ordered another Garand from CMP as I got some of the last two 03's they had (for mail purchase) and figure that there probably aren't any more caches of good Garands left out there.
JesseL
Member
I think that in the Big Picture, milsurps that are available to you and me are drying up, simply because since the 1950's or so most militaries have gone to selct fire weapons that probably won't ever become civilian legal surplus. There is a fixed supply of milsurps and a non-zero demand -they will eventually dry up.
An M1917 is the next one on my list.
Does anyone know if you can rebarrel an old Mosin-Nagant? I have an old long barreled rifle dated 1914 if memory serves. I got it cheap, but the bore is in pretty poor shape. I was just curious if it is salvageable as a shooter.
Does anyone know if you can rebarrel an old Mosin-Nagant? I have an old long barreled rifle dated 1914 if memory serves. I got it cheap, but the bore is in pretty poor shape. I was just curious if it is salvageable as a shooter.
1 old 0311
member
If Hillary makes into the big house EVERYTHING will be gone. Plan accordingly.
dragongoddess
member
Thanks for the info. The local gun shop has a really nice one with a walnut stock. I was thinking that if they were drying up maybe I should go ahead and move that purchase to the top of the firearms I want. It will be my second K31 if I do purchase it. As a matter of note. I took the K31 to the range this past Thursday to fire a few rounds through it. Never fired it before. Hit the target at 300 yards 2 out of 5. Not bad for me. In fact me hitting something at 300 yards is mission impossible land. But twice.
Technosavant
Member
The K31s haven't completely dried up, but you can tell that some places no longer offer them for sale (SOG hasn't listed them in their catalog for a couple months now), and sometimes you aren't offered the ability to pony up for a walnut stocked version. On top of that, several places have said "this is all there is, there won't be any more." Take that as you will, but I have seen nothing that indicates that Switzerland has unlimited stores of them. In addition, 7.5x55 is becoming more and more available in modern commercial loadings, let alone the GP11 ($199 is a ripoff for a 480 rd case; AIM has that same case for $156).
Dragongoddess, they ARE nice, aren't they? I love my walnut K31, and with the clamp-on mount and an inexpensive scope, I can drill holes quite well. That action is the sweetest thing ever.
Dragongoddess, they ARE nice, aren't they? I love my walnut K31, and with the clamp-on mount and an inexpensive scope, I can drill holes quite well. That action is the sweetest thing ever.
SigfanUSAF
Member
SOG has K-31s on page 8 of their August 2006 dealer flyer. $129.95 + $10.00 handpick fee. Just ordered one!
alamo
Member
Right. I got mine from AIM a few years ago. A Russian capture of course. None of the Nazi markings were peened out. It had the RC "X" of course. A great piece of history to own and shoot.
ocabj
Member
Midway 480 round case is $188 shipped to California with C&R discount. The Ammoman price is appropriate.
DWARREN123
Member
Look at when they were made and how long they have been sold as mil-surp. The supply is not unlimited especially for the very good ones. Just my opinion.
atomchaser
Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2005
- Messages
- 407
Hard to say without knowing what is still in the warehouses around the world. As the orignal supply dries up, the stuff will still available as collectors sell off for whatever reason. Prices will go up based on supply and demand. I think the golden age for getting relatively cheap mil surp rifles is probably winding down. One only has to look at the situation with CMP rifles and how it is affecting the secondary market for Garands and 1903 rifles.
Limeyfellow
Member
More scary is that Republicans on here would vote for Guilani who makes Clinton looks like a progun arms dealer in comparison and would undoubtfully win. Makes me cringe when I see what he did in New York City and would implement all those laws nation wide. He is nearly as bad as Reagon was.
Technosavant
Member
I guess I missed it. I remember looking through the flyer looking for them, but didn't see them. I don't have the catalog sitting aroundd anymore, or I'd check. The September one should be showing up before too long.
Davo
Member
ammoman gave me a NOS swiss milsurp sleeping bag-it is of decent quality and fits tall guys like me well.
Cosmoline
Member
K-31's are slowly drying up but prices are still low. If you want to get Swiss, get a 1911 long rifle. Those have dried up but can still be found for fairly reasonable prices.
Don't worry about the 91/30 Mosins from the USSR. There were over 20 million of them made and they will NOT be running out. There were even hundreds of thousands of Soviet 91/30 snipers made. The TRULY RARE MOSIN-NAGANTS are the FINNS and certain unmodified M-91's from before the first world war. there's a comparative rarity chart at www.7.62x54R.net but basically even the most prolific of the Finnish Mosins, the M-39, was made in vastly smaller lots than any Soviet Mosin. Any Finn you can find from the Winter War period, including Finnish M-91's, M-28/30's, M-27's and the like, are EXCEEDINGLY RARE AND INHERENTLY VALUABLE RIFLES. Only a tiny number were made, some lots numbering in the low five digits or less. They almost all saw combat. Thankfully for those of us who like these rifles, even most collectors are ignorant when it comes to Mosins and don't understand the enormous difference in rarity between Finns and USSR rifles. Later Continuation War Finns such as the M-39's, Tikka 91/30's and late model M91's are more common and many never served on the front line, but even these are orders of magnitude less common than the Soviet production rifles. The prices have not caught up with reality, but they will. You can still find the Rifle of White Death, the Civil Guard 28/30, for $300 to $400. It's true value should be closer to a thousand bucks, considering its legendary battle history and extreme rarity. But the market is full of bone heads who think a Mosin is a Mosin. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS TO CONTINUE! In the end the markets always correct themselves. I watched it happen with FN-49's, which went from being regarded as cheap Egyptian crap to rare collector's items as people figured out what they really were.
Military Mauser Rifles from South America, Africa and Asia are also going up and up in value. Grab any intact examples you can find if you see them for a low price. The near eastern and European lots are a mixed bag. The Persians are absolutely undervalued, but the Nazi marked K-98k's are typically OVERvalued.
Some off the beaten path US military rifles, esp. the Eddystones, have been very much undervalued compared with the Springfield '03's. But these prices are going up. If you can find an intact one for a good price grab it. Most of those left on the market have been messed with and bubbafied in horrific ways. Krag rifles also seem to be oddly undervalued.
But remember above all else, don't screw with the rifle. In the future most rifles that are un bubba'ed will be worth more than they are today. It wasn't too long ago that the M-1 Garands were as cheap as furniture legs.
Don't worry about the 91/30 Mosins from the USSR. There were over 20 million of them made and they will NOT be running out. There were even hundreds of thousands of Soviet 91/30 snipers made. The TRULY RARE MOSIN-NAGANTS are the FINNS and certain unmodified M-91's from before the first world war. there's a comparative rarity chart at www.7.62x54R.net but basically even the most prolific of the Finnish Mosins, the M-39, was made in vastly smaller lots than any Soviet Mosin. Any Finn you can find from the Winter War period, including Finnish M-91's, M-28/30's, M-27's and the like, are EXCEEDINGLY RARE AND INHERENTLY VALUABLE RIFLES. Only a tiny number were made, some lots numbering in the low five digits or less. They almost all saw combat. Thankfully for those of us who like these rifles, even most collectors are ignorant when it comes to Mosins and don't understand the enormous difference in rarity between Finns and USSR rifles. Later Continuation War Finns such as the M-39's, Tikka 91/30's and late model M91's are more common and many never served on the front line, but even these are orders of magnitude less common than the Soviet production rifles. The prices have not caught up with reality, but they will. You can still find the Rifle of White Death, the Civil Guard 28/30, for $300 to $400. It's true value should be closer to a thousand bucks, considering its legendary battle history and extreme rarity. But the market is full of bone heads who think a Mosin is a Mosin. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS TO CONTINUE! In the end the markets always correct themselves. I watched it happen with FN-49's, which went from being regarded as cheap Egyptian crap to rare collector's items as people figured out what they really were.
Military Mauser Rifles from South America, Africa and Asia are also going up and up in value. Grab any intact examples you can find if you see them for a low price. The near eastern and European lots are a mixed bag. The Persians are absolutely undervalued, but the Nazi marked K-98k's are typically OVERvalued.
Some off the beaten path US military rifles, esp. the Eddystones, have been very much undervalued compared with the Springfield '03's. But these prices are going up. If you can find an intact one for a good price grab it. Most of those left on the market have been messed with and bubbafied in horrific ways. Krag rifles also seem to be oddly undervalued.
But remember above all else, don't screw with the rifle. In the future most rifles that are un bubba'ed will be worth more than they are today. It wasn't too long ago that the M-1 Garands were as cheap as furniture legs.
- Status
