Steel replaces brass

[xm21]

When did steel bases replace brass in shotshell hulls?I have read that Remington started to do this as early as 1970.I have checked with a magnet all the diff. shells I have on hand and the Win AA,s are the only ones that are brass.The shells I have are Win bulk,Rem bulk,and Fed bulk pack from Wally world.Rem Gun Club,Rem Express,Rem Sport,Fed Black Cloud,Win Super X,Fed,Rem,and Win turkey loads,and Rem Express buckshot and slugger loads.In other words all the shells I have are steel based except for the Win AA,s yet the Only loads that ever caused problems in my Express were the Win bulk and some Fiocchi #9 orange hulls.These were the least expensive shells that were shot and the only ones that caused extraction problems.

Since polishing the chamber on my Express I can shoot these or any shells chambered for my gun with no extraction problems.

I think it is not a problem with steel hulls,but a problem with the sizing of the steel base on the shells in question.My gun only had problems with about 25% of these cheap shells the other 3/4 of the box had no problems.

My gun had visible rings in the chamber that were not removed until I honed it with a Flexhone chamber polishing hone(I had used the 0000 steel wool method to polish and it worked but I was not happy until my chamber was all the way smooth).

I think that the problem is not with the material(steel) used for the bases but the poor quality control on the least expensive shells in conjunction with the lack of final polish in the chambers of some guns or the lack of using a chamber brush in others.

Any thoughts on this subject?

 

[GigaBuist]

I think that the problem is not with the material(steel) used for the bases but the poor quality control on the least expensive shells in conjunction with the lack of final polish in the chambers of some guns or the lack of using a chamber brush in others.

Any thoughts on this subject?

A couple.

I don't know what it is about the Winchester Universal hulls that give people problems in 870s barrels but I've seen it myself. So, it's real, I'm not just entirely sure why it happens.

I don't think it's that much of a quality control issue with regards to sizing. I can drop my 12 gauge resizing die from a Lee Load-All onto anything from the factory and they all fit just fine. That's something I cannot say for the reloads that are resized even with that same die.

So, out of the box they're all in spec. That's why they all chamber just fine. It's what happens after firing that'll cause the extraction problems.

I suspect that steel expands a bit more under heat than brass does. Suspect. I'm not a metallurgist. Also, brass is more malleable than even soft steel. That's why we use it all the time in our regular cartridges. You can just resize it and reload it. Not so much with steel.

So, what you, and we, are probably seeing with steel hulls that don't want to extract is a tougher metal slamming up against the chamber walls and forming to them, rough edges and all. Brass will give easier when you try and extract but the steel remains rigid and, if I'm right about it reacting more to heat, has probably expanded a bit deal on its own in the process making it even tougher.

If there's a QC issue at hand it's probably related to the make up of the steel actually used in the hulls, not how they're sized from the factory.

 

[xm21]

That is certainly one theory.Name a few shells that have brass bases(other than Win AA's or STS's)

Your theory sounds OK but why do at least 75% of the shells function?if the steels content was the problem then the whole run would have extraction problems..............would it not?

 

[oneounceload]

Brass expands and then contracts more readily after firing than steel - the main reason steel cases give extraction problems.

All of the brands you mentioned are typically the promotional loads. If you look at the top target loadings from the big name folks, you'll find that brass still reigns supreme. The prices of those shotgun shells reflect the higher quality internal components as well.

Steel is used more and more because it costs less.

 

[chas08]

Brass expands and then contracts more readily after firing than steel - the main reason steel cases give extraction problems.

I completely agree.

So, out of the box they're all in spec.

Thats probably true, but being "in Spec" doesen't necessarily mean the same size. Specifications usually have an upper and lower limit (+/- .000whatever) and even as little as one half of one thousandth of an inch can mean the difference between loosness and inteference. Steel is just a cheap, barely adequate, material to make cartridges and shell case heads from. I wish the shotshell manufacturers would offer brass heads on their Waterfowl shotshells. Because here, rust is a problem in itself.

 

[MAX100]

I think the problem is that Remington doesn't change their tooling (chamber reamers) out often as often as they should. Dulling under size reamers cut rough under size chambers. The chambers only have to be under size a few thousands to cause a problem. That's why some 870 barrels don't have a problem and some do. Shells sticking in the chamber only started becoming a problem in the last 5 years or so. You don't see it in older 870 shotguns.


GC

 

[Magic_Man]

My 870 loves the steel Winchesters, but my S12 does not.

 

[MCgunner]

I do long for the Activ to make a come back. I mean, WHY even have any brass. They worked fantastic. They had a brass insert for the primer and the extractor to pull on, covered in plastic. No other metal, nothing to rust, and you didn't even need to size them when reloading. They were AWEsome! Why can't they make a come back? Why can't Winchester or some load them? The patent has got to be expired by now.

 

[JimKirk]

MC
I'll agree on the Activ, I have a short term of depression everytime I have to discard one of my Activ because of a really split mouth(got be split bad too)! I still have about a 1000 or more left. We shot sporting clays with them. They made a fine 20 ga with 1 oz. of hard #9!
The only hangup I've ever had with my Benelli Montefeltro 20 ga, was with a Activ! The extractor had pulled some of the plastic off the metal insert on the rim and it had hung up in the magazine tube. I pryed it out with a knife, cut the burr off and killed a dove with it.
No sizing die needed just a deprimer die! Crimped as good a sliced light bread! DANG!
What happened to the Activ company? I never Knew!

Jimmy K