Steel Shot Sucks!!

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TooTaxed

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Just returned from a hunt on a farmer's pond in NE Alabama, where a farmer has asked me to reduce his Canadian goose probem. He wasn't kidding! He has a flock of well over 75 resident birds gobbling up his corn fields

When I lived in California I shot perhaps a pickup truck load of ducks and geese. My favorite load for geese was #2 lead shot in my trusty old Browning Auto, 2-3/4" 12-ga full choke. Good range...30 to 50 yards, clean kills, very few misses.

Times have changed! Only steel shot is available now, and I can't use that in my beloved Browning. Steel is lighter, loses velocity faster, and the penetration is considerably less. The largest 12-ga 2-3/4" shot I could find is #2 steel...too small for geese, which require B or larger.

So I went to a Verona semi-auto 12-ga, 3" chamber with modified choke tube and BB shot. I found that the effective range is only about 20 to 30 yards...I shot a bit farther, and was fortunate to have one pellet hit a wing at the tip joint. The bird started flying again when I got close, so I shot it a second time...and had to wring its neck to put it out of its misery. I found that only four pellets got through to the body through all that feather and thick down armor.

I've concluded that for large Canadian geese a 3-1/2" chambered gun would be far better...that still gives you only about 1-1/4 oz of steel shot, but much higher starting velocity.

I'm not happy...I'm sure several other birds were injured but flew away...and I don't like that. Game deserves clean kills.:cuss:
 
You could use one ofthe newer tungsten/bismuth types of shot. The upsde is that it works a sgood or better than the old lead shot, the downside is that it costs $2-3 per shot. I gave up on using steel shot for geese a long time ago, its only effective if you are close in and calling them into a spread of dekes.
 
Ive noticed different manufacturers that produce the same shot size have varying performance. Now I stick with Hevishot or 3 1/2 T shot regardless of how close. Remember dead is dead, I hate cripples-
 
I was unable to locate any tungsten or Hevi-shot in our area...it seems to have disappeared from the market here in Columbus, GA.:banghead:
 
Bismuth went belly up, out of business. The tungsten stuff is ridiculously expensive. Hevi shot is still about 2 bucks a shot, but the price of tungsten must have really skyrocketed, because it's up to around 3 a shot now. When I had my goose lease several years ago, I was getting it from Mack's Prairie Wings for about a buck and a half a shot and Wallmart had it for about that, but no longer.

The new stuff on the market I will try when my tungsten stash is used up, called Remington "hevi steel", under a dollar a shot, compares almost to high speed steel, but it's 20 percent heavier and Remington claims 45 (or something like that) percent more effective, I guess due to high velocity. It sounds like it might be the stuff it it patterns well enough. Tungsten is pretty awesome, better than lead IMHO if the price hadn't gone up so much.

I have never seen Tungsten or Bismuth for reloading, but I have never really looked that hard as I gave up reloading shotguns, just to handguns and rifles now.
 
Have you considered a .22? That would be my choice for resident birds, providing I could shoot from inside my car so they couldn't see me walking around.
 
I suppose you still can't use the Hevi-Steel in full-choked guns? The high velocity sounds good... I'll try to locate some for trial at the range.
 
I agree steel is rubbish.I have tried all the makes,shot size.I was always having to ring a gooses neck.I now will only use Hevi Shot,expensive in the UK $6.00 a shell,but it kills.I am not a great fan of Tungsten either.Nothing will ever replace lead.
 
Yes, indeed...I am very seriously considering a .22. 50-yd head shots on a standing goose should be easy. Getting that close without alarming them will take some planning and preparation.

These birds are on a farm pond, so you can't get near without spooking them. I've had it with steel shot, and at $3/shot the bismuth/tungsten shot is rather pricey.

If I don't reduce the flock the farmer will probably poison them.:(
 
$6.00 a shell
Click to expand...

GOOD GOD! I'd just quit hunting geese. :rolleyes:

No, don't use full choke. Kent "tungsten matrix" can be used in old guns and chokes more like lead from what I read, but hevi shot and tungsten-iron are hard like steel and need less restrictive chokes. I shoot modified, but guns will vary. I get good patterns with modified out of my Mossberg.

That Hevi Steel stuff sells for about 20 dollars for 25 round box. That makes goose hunting affordable if it lives up to the advertising hype. It's only double the cost of the steel I use for ducks. Only time I really need more than steel on geese is late season when the snows are decoy shy. If they're coming into the rags well enough, 20-35 yard shots, they're dead with just about anything. I've knocked 'em out of the sky with steel duck loads at 35 yards, but much over that and steel just loses too much velocity to work consistently even if you do hit 'em. At 40-45, you can hear the damned stuff bounce off breast feathers and cripples are more common than kills on geese. I've stated this and been berated for it, but I can hear the pllloooop of the shot on breast feathers, see he bird get knocked 5 feet higher, and just keep on flying like the energizer bunny. I don't know what's happening other than the steel has lost enough energy so as not to penetrate the heavy breast feathers of the goose. It is frustrating.
 
You are quite right about the failure of steel shot to penetrate the feathers. It looses velocity quickly and can't penetrate that thick mat of body feathers and down. You just about have to hit a head, neck, or wing. And that's problematical with the small number of large shot pellets and the pattern spread.:fire:

I repeat...unless you can call in birds over decoys, plain steel sucks.
 
I have a hunt booked fr the 17th. I have about 45 rounds of Tungsten left from my goose lease days. When that's gone, I'll be playing with Remington's "hevi steel", I guess. That Federal tungsten-lead kills 'em from way up there 50 yards or better. Normally, I don't shoot past 45-50 yards cause we are hunting over deeks. If they're farther, we let 'em circle and see if we can call 'em down on a second pass. What's pretty is when they commit ad set the wings. Then, you know you did YOUR job and the shotgun/load doesn't have too tough a row to hoe.

I've got 200 wind sock deeks, basically a tapered plastic bag on a dowel rod that fills in the wind and has black stripes on it like snow geese have. I have 50 dark goose sock deeks to go with 'em. Makes a decent spread. I've hunted over a thousand of these things out of Katy with a guide before, but a couple hundred normally will do the job.

You can find 'em at http://www.mackspw.com/?SRC=Y0806GL0GOOGLE00&gclid=CLLW1MmaipACFSSaZQodjkhmtg , but I don't know if they'd work for Canadas. We don't get a lot of Canadas down here, mostly snows and specks.
 
McGunner, Looked up your Prairie Wings link...the Remington Hevi-Shot at $28/box, minus their $2.50/box rebate, doesn't look bad.

I truly envy you your hunt! I miss hunting in blinds with a good dog...:D
 
Let me tell you another downside.
A friend came by with a couple of Mallards he didn't want so I skinned the breast out and put them in the crock pot covered with chicken broth.I put them over rice and was merrily having my meal when I bit down on a steel shot.

Cost me $700 for a root canal and another $700 for a crown. So much for a free meal.
 
The poor selection of loads is the reason why I started loading in the first place. If you don't have a "MEGA HUNTING STORE" around like Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops or The Sportsman's Warehouse then you are left with only a few options.
1. Start Reloading your own. (My personal Favorite)
2. Shop Online
3. Buy whatever you can find at Walmart, Kmart, and those types. (Never have the best loads onhand).
4. Have Someone else reload for you.

Poor planning ahead will almost without exception produce poor results. Didn't your mother tell you that?

BTW: You CAN get steel shot to do ALMOST as well as lead. The rule of thumb has always been 2 sizes larger shot for Steel vs. Lead. I haven't complained about Steel Shot for years. It's really not that bad if you really do your part. The hevi-shot and Tungsten are good, but very expensive options for those of us that love our old A-5s. Yes, I have two of them.
 
BirdBuster, my favorite duck and goose gun is my trusty A-5...Browning Ser #263, latest patent date 1903, made in Ogden Utah:what:...and Yes! it is high strength steel, fine for modern shells. But I won't shoot steel in that full-choke gun...
 
Full choke is too much choke for any steel loads. Results in a "blown" pattern so I hear. I love the A-5 also. I have one Belgium and one Japan made. Both have the Ventilated rib and the squared off grip, so I don't think either are really old. My father did contact a gunsmith in the eithties when South Carolina made the waterfowlers switch to steel. He said that the Japan A-5 would be fine, but not to shoot steel through the Belgium made one. I prefer modified choke for steel. It produces about a light full pattern. Improved modified choke would be the tightest choke I would ever use with steel.

You could always get a new barrel. I also have a Browning Gold that I love. It's a beautiful gun, invector plus chokes, gas operated (less recoil), lighter and 3" capable (they do have the 3.5" also, but I don't think its necessary). The Browning Gold IS a GREAT successor to the A-5. You wouldn't be disappointed in the Gold if you tried one.
 
I made a thread a few weeks ago about the bulletproof ducks that I wounded with steel. Season's over in Michigan, but I'm planning on moving to hevi-shot next year.

The way I figure it, hevi is expensive, but so are guns, and canoes, and hunting licenses, and waders. I take half a dozen or so hunting trips a year, and go through maybe ten rounds in a trip. The sticker shock might be impressive at first, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't add a huge amount of cash to the whole experience.
 
Not sure if bismuth went out of business like someone posted, but it's available in shells or in bulk for handloading. for now...
 
I shoot too many ducks, good public hunting nearby, to switch from steel and over deeks, you don't really need hevi shot on big ducks and teal. However, I feel like mugs does on geese, don't hunt 'em that often, so what if I'm spending more? Ain't like I go every week like I sometimes do when the duck hunting is good. And I want more knock down for the bigger birds. I don't like cripples and steel just ain't enough for geese unless you're bringing 'em in well.

Now, if I had to speed six bucks a shot (bracing before passing out) I think I'd just go duck hunting and forget the geese, LOL! Thank God I don't have to drive too far, cost of gas is out pacing the price of hevi shot. LOL
 
Not sure if bismuth went out of business like someone posted, but it's available in shells or in bulk for handloading. for now...
Click to expand...

Actually, I never verified that. I was told that on a duck hunting board and they told a story of the guy that owned the deal died and his inheritors shut down the company or something like that. Since Kent is now advertising that it's "tungsten matrix" is the only game in town for old shotguns, I figured it must be true.
 
My 870 knocks down Resident Canada geese with 3" BBB or T shot in steel with a fixed full choke barrel. Perhaps I got lucky. It patterns very well, and perhaps that is part of the problem with the original post starting this thread. Does his gun pattern well? I was taught that the reason for the use of a modified choke with steel shot was that the pattern with steel shot and a full choke was too dense and so small one would miss too often, and the modified choke with steel gave the same sized pattern as lead shot from a full choke barrel at equivalent ranges. Perhaps it's the tighter pattern that gives me the better results? 50-60 yards isn't a problem for me.

I also noticed that I have a tendency, especially in colder weather with a thick coat on, to have my head a bit high on the stock of the gun when waterfowling. This tended to make me shoot too high. I put a set of fiber optic rifle type sights on my vented rib (the kind they sell for turkey hunting), and aligning the front and rear "dots" makes me put my head all the way down. I have a much better success rate now with that gimmick. Just a thought.

LD
 
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