STI Edge or SIG X-Five Competition.

[JasonHooper]

I am going to buy a new full sized gun in .40 S&W that is fast and accurate enough for competition, yet reliable enough to carry. I have narrowed it down to to the STI Edge or the SIG X-Five Competition. I love the extra weight from the stainless X-Five frame, but the trigger feels better on the STI. Anyone lucky enough to own both of these? Which one should I get?

 

[Master Blaster]

Take a good look at, and try shooting and HK USP in similar configuration first. Its a better carry gun than either choice you mentioned, and they can hold their own in competition.

 

[ny32182]

Unless you are a masochist, anything truly fast and accurate enough for competition will be way to heavy to carry... those are competition guns you mentioned.

 

[dom1104]

HKs dont "hold their own" in competition, they are so ill suited to it they are all but non-existant.

The X-Five is also rarely seen.

STI double stack 1911s are ubiquitous, because they are purpose build for the job.

Do not use your competition double stack tuned 1911 as your carry gun.

Get another gun similar to it and use that.

You are going to put some serious miles on your competition gun, your CCW has to be ready to go every day.

 

[JasonHooper]

I have carried 1911s before in an IWB holster. They are not too bad. You get used to them.

 

[ny32182]

They are also way lighter than either of the guns you menitoned.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

The Edge trigger can be made far better than the Sig quite easily. I don't think you'd want to carry either gun. I have a Baer Monolith Heavyweight that I use for NRA Action Pistol production limited 10 matches at the local gun club, and I wouldn't think of trying to carry it given the size - like the Edge and the Sig - it's just plain BIG.

That's part of what you want in a competition pistol, as the longer sight radius aids in aiming and the weight makes follow up shots easier and faster. But the size and weight make concealment problematic.

As a suggestion, you might also want to look at the Springfield 5.25, my wife shoots one for action pistol production high capacity. Great gun, trigger can be easily tweaked. Another one to look at would be the CZ 75 SP01 series if you want to shoot 9mm. Check the CZ Custom website. Angus Hobdell knows as much about competition pistols as anyone. You can call CZ Custom in Mesa, AZ and they will put together a competition gun for you at less than the cost of either the Edge or the Sig.

Likewise, Springer Precision or Canyon Creek can put together a Springfield 5.25 competition gun in 9mm, .40, or .45 with a trigger job, smaller fiber optic front sight, grip texturing, magwell, and a couple of other tweaks for around $1100. The nice thing about the Springfield is that if you buy it before Nov 30, you can get three free magazines from Springfield.

 

[robinkevin]

You don't want to use such a highly tune 1911 as a carry gun as they tune them to the point that they are usually so tight it becomes likely to fail when needed. I am basing this only on what I have read but it makes since as they tune these "race" guns to run on the edge of whats physically possible.

So why not get a more basic 1911 for carry (Springfield, Remington, Colt, Para)... and have the STI for competition?

 

[Jed Carter]

For USPSA matches I would go with the STI, both are reliable but different platforms. As far as parts and accessories are concerned the STI has the "Edge". I have several SIG pistols including some 1911s, but use my STI for competitions Way better trigger out of the box. If I could only have one pistol for USPSA and as a CCW it would most likely be a Glock G19, I could not easily conceal either the SIG or STI 2011. I have CCWs, like a G19, CZ PCR, SIG RCS 1911, and competition pistols like my Glocks G34, G35 and STI Trojan. I have Production, Limited / Limited 10, and Single Stack covered. My G35 will be available today, it's been worked over by Shawn Hopkins to make it a real Limited class pistol ( recontured / textured grip, trigger work, KKM barrel, sights and magwell ), cannot wait to shoot it! USPSA match is on the 4th of Dec.

 

[JasonHooper]

Thanks for the input. Dom, why is the x-five not used in competition? It is because of the trigger? Will a trigger job help with that?

Jed, I also appreciate the input. I was also considering the G35 but it is super light! I could also do without the magwell (I plan on taking the magwell off the two pistols that I mentioned.)

This is my philosophy: I want a gun that is fast, powerful, accurate, and reliable. If it is not suitable for competition, why would you want to use it for carry? The average gunfight lasts less than two seconds and you must shoot your assailant, in a vital area, with enough force to stop him, before he stops you.

I live within twenty miles of the Mexican border. There are shootings in my community almost every day. I take my firearms training very seriously because my life could very well depend on it. I am currently caring a SIG P229, but the first DA pull is frustrating me. I have tried pulling the thumbs back. I have tried doing various trigger stages. I need something better.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree that you need two guns, one for competition, and one for carry. A finely tuned trigger on a carry gun is a liability.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

Too heavy to carry? Seriously? My EDC is an SVI 2011 the same size as an edge, except all steel so its even heavier. Before that I carried a 6" SVI that I switched away from not because of its >64 ounce loaded weight, but becausw of its length. Even carrying that waa comfortable and painless.

 

[Ankeny]

...they tune them to the point that they are usually so tight it becomes likely to fail...

The first priority of a "race gun" if you will is to be utterly and totally reliable. There are no "overs" in IPSC/USPSA so if your gun barfs you generally lose the stage if not the match. FWIW, I have owned several STI pistols but I never carried them because of the bulk. If I wanted one gun for carry and competition it would be a full size Glock, XD, M&P, etc. and I would shoot Production Division.

 

[Jim Watson]

why is the x-five not used in competition?

I'm not Dom, but I understand the X-five IS used in competition... in Europe where it is built.

I have a locally built clone of an STI Eagle - short dust cover and bushing barrel so as to be allowable in IDPA. It is a great shooter.
There are some things I would want taken care of before depending on such for a carry gun, but I bet they could be managed, probably are routinely handled by the specialists who see way more of them than my local shop.

 

[Master Blaster]

Like I said, for an excellent reliable CARRY gun, you can also use in local / informal competition take a look at an HK USP fullsize 12 rounds+1, or a compact 8+
1 in .45 ACP. The .40's hold more rounds. You can carry them cocked and locked or DA/SA whichever you prefer. The reason they are not used in competition (formal) is the round count. For CARRY in the real world they cannot be beat, glocks are a close second. This is coming from a guy who owns and shoots 7 1911 pistols, and a SIG P220 ST.

 

[maxxborist]

go visit a couple of club matches and see what they are shooting and ask their opinion.

 

[9mmepiphany]

why is the x-five not used in competition? It is because of the trigger? Will a trigger job help with that?

It just doesn't fit very well in any of the domestic classes. Too heavy/big for Production/IDPA, Doesn't hold enough rounds for Limited/Open in USPSA

If it is not suitable for competition, why would you want to use it for carry?

It is because competition is so specialized...if your goal is to be competitive, you're looking at tuning them to a point that they are less suitable for carry. You can compete with either gun, but it might not be the best choice.

I am currently caring a SIG P229, but the first DA pull is frustrating me. (1) I have tried pulling the thumbs back. I have tried doing various trigger stages. (2) I need something better.

(1) Are you talking about cocking the hammer for a SA trigger pull?

(2) What you need is professional instruction on how to manage the DA trigger stroke. When you understand it, it is quite accurate. The DA trigger makes not difference in accuracy or speed to the first shoot from the holster, when performed correctly, out to 15 yards...compared to a SA shot. The guy who taught be is just as accurate out to 25 yards...and he took 4th at the last Bianchi Cup shooting a DA/SA Sig X-5 (would have done better if he hadn't dropped 30 points on the first stage due to nerves)

 

[Master Blaster]

In bullseye pistol most successful competitors shoot a 1911 with a red dot, and a European Olympic target grade .22lr with a red dot. Although I own and like both for target shooting, I would not carry either one.

 

[JasonHooper]

(1) Are you talking about cocking the hammer for a SA trigger pull?

I never cock the hammer out of the holster. I have only ever seen that in movies. I read your article "Fear Not, the Double Action Shot!" and I will try to do one smooth pull instead of staging the trigger. I might have "now syndrome." My shots come in low and to the right (I am a right handed shooter) consistent with mashing.

What you need is professional instruction on how to manage the DA trigger stroke.

Where do you recommend that I go? I am frustrated because I dry practice every day with perfect sight alignment, but my range targets are not indicative of my drills.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I never cock the hammer out of the holster.

What did you mean by, "I have tried pulling the thumbs back"?...from where?

Where do you recommend that I go? I am frustrated because I dry practice every day with perfect sight alignment, but my range targets are not indicative of my drills.

Pretty hard to say when we don't know where you are located.

How are you doing your Dry Practice?

If your Live Fire doesn't reflect your Dry Practice, you're becoming investing in hitting the target, rather than running the trigger. It isn't hard to correct in person, but is just about impossible without seeing you shoot and a little hands on correction. Some things just don't communicate the same through the written word

 

[jackpinesavages]

Get the STI from Dawson Precision-have them install their FO front before shipping-go win your area matches.

 

[JasonHooper]

What did you mean by, "I have tried pulling the thumbs back"?...from where?

Some shooting schools teach a thumbs back grip rather than thumbs forward with a double action trigger.

Pretty hard to say when we don't know where you are located.

I live in the Rio Grande Valley (South Texas.)

How are you doing your Dry Practice?

I start with a "ragged hole" drill. I just take slow presses at the center of the target for about five minutes.

Next, I practice moving the gun out from my chest pointing in while advancing the trigger. I try to break exactly as I lock out with perfect sight alignment. I do this for about ten minutes.

Next, I practice from the holster, without concealment, with a firm grip already on my pistol. I have the same goals as before. I do this for another ten minutes.

Finally, I practice with concealment. I draw, point in, and fire, I mimic a de-cock, re-holster, and reset. I do this for another ten minutes.

I do this routine once before work and once when I get home.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I start with a "ragged hole" drill. I just take slow presses at the center of the target for about five minutes.

Next, I practice moving the gun out from my chest pointing in while advancing the trigger. I try to break exactly as I lock out with perfect sight alignment. I do this for about ten minutes.

Next, I practice from the holster, without concealment, with a firm grip already on my pistol. I have the same goals as before. I do this for another ten minutes.

Finally, I practice with concealment. I draw, point in, and fire, I mimic a de-cock, re-holster, and reset. I do this for another ten minutes.

I do this routine once before work and once when I get home.

Sounds like you are doing everything correctly...I'm actually very impressed, I wish I had your self-discipline.

If this practice isn't getting you tiny little groups when shooting DA, You'd need someone to watch you shoot to see what is changing during Live Fire.

Are your shots going low or high?

You might look into attending the Practical Fundamentals Course - September 28-30, 2012 - San Antonio, TX put on by Operation Specific Training

http://opspectraining.com/training.php

 

[JasonHooper]

Are your shots going low or high?

My pattern is low, slightly to the right, and about a foot wide at fifty feet. After reading your article on the "Zen and the art of hitting stuff," I believe that I am flinching only when I have a round in the chamber. I must behave differently when I know that the gun is going off.