Stoeger Cougar
- Thread starter BlkHawk73
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MachIVshooter
Member
Stoeger bought all the Beretta tooling. But the new 8000 series is being made in Turkey, where labor is much cheaper than Italy. Hence the $350 sticker, instead of nearly $700 for the Italian made guns. I do hope they start producing the 8045 again.
I know the story behind these as beretta owns Stoger. I was simly referring to the ideas that people will see this as a lesser quality gun or a cheap POS since it's not braned as a beretta, especially those seeing it as simply a clone of the Beretta marked one and not knowing the relationship between the two companies. Kinda like it was a great gun beofre when Beretta made it but now it's junk. Along the lines of the XD. It was a nothing as the HS2000 but WHOA! rollmark "Springfield" on it and it's the greatest thing around.
Lord Bodak
Member
If they can get them out in stores in front of people, I think it's going to be a hit. If the Cougar was a "failure" as a Beretta (and I put that in quotes b/c everything I have seen about the Cougar is excellent; if it was a failure it was only so in the commercial sense), I suspect it was only due to price.
Coming down to the $350 MSRP range is going to have people comparing the Stoeger to a Ruger or Taurus, rather than a Sig or H&K, and it looks like it will compete VERY well in that price range.
Coming down to the $350 MSRP range is going to have people comparing the Stoeger to a Ruger or Taurus, rather than a Sig or H&K, and it looks like it will compete VERY well in that price range.
10-Ring
Member
I was skimming over an article about it yesterday. The one thing that caught my eye was the proposed MSRP of $365 (?) I forsee alot of new Cougar owners if that is true. As for whether it is better or worse??? Only time will see - that price difference is for a reason, it just remains to be seen where all that savings comes from
Rotorflyr
Member
The savings likely come (at least in part) due to labor cost's......that and brand recognition.
Lord Bodak
Member
There are three possibilities I see:
1) labor costs
2) quality
3) brand recognition
Could be any one of those, but more likely a mix of them.
Quality-- hopefully they aren't cutting costs here, but it's possible.
Labor cost is a big one because I'm sure there is a significant difference between Italy and Turkey there.
Brand recognition is probably a big one too. I love my H&K, but is the price difference between a Glock and say an H&K or a Sig really justified by the quality of the product? Taurus and Ruger are certainly better than their prices would imply, relative to the competition.
You're no longer paying for the Beretta name even though the pistol really is a Beretta. Hopefully it will maintain Beretta's quality reputation and then we may have a winner.
1) labor costs
2) quality
3) brand recognition
Could be any one of those, but more likely a mix of them.
Quality-- hopefully they aren't cutting costs here, but it's possible.
Labor cost is a big one because I'm sure there is a significant difference between Italy and Turkey there.
Brand recognition is probably a big one too. I love my H&K, but is the price difference between a Glock and say an H&K or a Sig really justified by the quality of the product? Taurus and Ruger are certainly better than their prices would imply, relative to the competition.
You're no longer paying for the Beretta name even though the pistol really is a Beretta. Hopefully it will maintain Beretta's quality reputation and then we may have a winner.
Pumpkinheaver
Member
The newer stoeger guns are pretty good. While I don't have a Cougar I do have a Stoeger 2000 semi auto shotgun. It uses the benelli inertia driven system. The stoeger is about $400 the benelli $1200 and up. Guess whitch one of the 2 shotguns get returned for repairs more. Yup, the benelli. I plan on buying one of these cougar to try out when they hit the shevles in my area.
I think that Beretta sales people might lack the incentive to get store sales people to remember that Stoeger is owned by Beretta, since it competes with the PX4.
Now a PX4 side by side with my Beretta Cougar loses out, but that is by my personal tastes.
But the price is competative with Rugers and CZ's.
I don't think that so many consumers are that aware of the Beretta Cougar, it really was a commerical failure.
Now a PX4 side by side with my Beretta Cougar loses out, but that is by my personal tastes.
But the price is competative with Rugers and CZ's.
I don't think that so many consumers are that aware of the Beretta Cougar, it really was a commerical failure.
Ohen Cepel
Member
I think the Cougar also got hurt the first time around due to the ban and the fact that hi-caps for it were rare or at least really hard to find. Didn't matter if you wanted a .40, but hurt the 9mm version bad.
I really wanted one back then and if I can get one now in the $300 price range then I'm really into it
However, will give it some time to hear a few reviews and actually see one. Stoeger's website shows nothing about them (not that I found). I would like to see the .45 and mini's come back also.
I really wanted one back then and if I can get one now in the $300 price range then I'm really into it
However, will give it some time to hear a few reviews and actually see one. Stoeger's website shows nothing about them (not that I found). I would like to see the .45 and mini's come back also.
Lord Bodak
Member
I think the PX-4 and the 90-Two are ugly. Also the early pics of the H&K P3000... ugly. There seems to be a trend popping up towards polymer pistols with sweeping curves and I'm just not a fan.
The only thing I see the PX-4 offering that the Cougar doesn't is extra capacity.
The only thing I see the PX-4 offering that the Cougar doesn't is extra capacity.
Lord Bodak
Member
Howdy,
This is my first post here so I just wanted to say hi.
The article in Guns and Ammo said it has a de-cocking safety. I wonder if this is simply a de-cocker or does it act as a safety that must be raised back up before you can fire the pistol double action?
This is my first post here so I just wanted to say hi.
The article in Guns and Ammo said it has a de-cocking safety. I wonder if this is simply a de-cocker or does it act as a safety that must be raised back up before you can fire the pistol double action?
Lord Bodak
Member
It's a true safety that must be raised back up before you can fire. So you can't carry it cocked & locked.
I know that when Beretta made the Cougar there was a variant that was decock only. Perhaps if the Stoeger catches on, we'll see the variants return.
I know that when Beretta made the Cougar there was a variant that was decock only. Perhaps if the Stoeger catches on, we'll see the variants return.
FYI
Today I looked at two Cougar 8000s. One a 9mm at Portland, OR’s Sportsman’s Warehouse selling new for $330.00 and a like new Berretta .40 S&W for $399.00 at The Gun Broker on 82nd Ave.
Sportsman’s Warehouse had sold their .40 S&W.
They looked the same to me with good fit and finish. Both were double/single action.
Today I looked at two Cougar 8000s. One a 9mm at Portland, OR’s Sportsman’s Warehouse selling new for $330.00 and a like new Berretta .40 S&W for $399.00 at The Gun Broker on 82nd Ave.
Sportsman’s Warehouse had sold their .40 S&W.
They looked the same to me with good fit and finish. Both were double/single action.
berettaman
Member
Unlike the 92 series the 8000 series(cougar)can be converted from an FS(safety/decocker)to a G (decocker only) by simply removing the ball bearing that keeps the safety lever in the down/safe position.10 minutes and your done.
I did a look and feel with the 9mm version at a Gander Mountain. It had a list price of 349, good fit and finish, good trigger, no machining marks on the outside or barrel, the barrel was chromed, I loved the rotating barrel.
Only downside is a thicker than I would like at the top of the grip compared to my S&W 6946.
If I can find a 40 for @$300 to 310, I will pick one up!
Only downside is a thicker than I would like at the top of the grip compared to my S&W 6946.
If I can find a 40 for @$300 to 310, I will pick one up!
Lord Bodak
Member
CDNN still has .40s for $299 (at least they did when I ordered mine). Total was $312.97 with shipping, although you'll have to pay an FFL transfer fee at whatever shop you use, so it'll come in a little above your price, but not much.
Just picked up the 9mm version of the Stoeger 8000 today. Bought it at Gander this morning in Houston. Although the price tag said $349.00 it rang up at $299.00! Turns out Gander is running a special and the guys hadn't changed the price tag on the gun.
took it to the range during my lunch time. Fired 150 rds of Magtech FMG. No issues or malfunctions at all. Initial interior inspection after the session yielded nothing out of the oridinary except that I did notice some slight tooling marks on the inside of the slide but nothing big. Felt recoil and overall experience leads me to comment that it pretty much felt like the 92FS that I own. If i had my eyes closed and was handed one of the guns to fire i don't think i could honestly tell the difference as long as i didn't "feel around" the gun's contour. Accuracy was acceptable (2-3" at 20yrds).
Like that rotating barrel locking system....it's kinda cool
Fit and finish looked good and everything was identical to the Beretta's version as far as I can see except for the "Made in Turkey" stamp on the side of the slide.
At $500-600 i'd probably pass. At $300 it's DEFINITELY A GOOD INVESTMENT. Absolutely no buyer's remorse!
took it to the range during my lunch time. Fired 150 rds of Magtech FMG. No issues or malfunctions at all. Initial interior inspection after the session yielded nothing out of the oridinary except that I did notice some slight tooling marks on the inside of the slide but nothing big. Felt recoil and overall experience leads me to comment that it pretty much felt like the 92FS that I own. If i had my eyes closed and was handed one of the guns to fire i don't think i could honestly tell the difference as long as i didn't "feel around" the gun's contour. Accuracy was acceptable (2-3" at 20yrds).
Like that rotating barrel locking system....it's kinda cool
Fit and finish looked good and everything was identical to the Beretta's version as far as I can see except for the "Made in Turkey" stamp on the side of the slide.
At $500-600 i'd probably pass. At $300 it's DEFINITELY A GOOD INVESTMENT. Absolutely no buyer's remorse!
Zundfolge
Member
The two main reasons for my interest ... Ifn' I get a hankering for one I'll hunt down a used one thankyouverymuch.
As an owner of an 8040F, I am stoked about this. I almost sold my Cougar once, but could not do it.
Now more parts will be available and I can have a twin for 350.00? I like that.
I noticed the slide is narrowed on the Stoeger towards the front. Any other differences anyone knows?
Bill in SD
Now more parts will be available and I can have a twin for 350.00? I like that.
I noticed the slide is narrowed on the Stoeger towards the front. Any other differences anyone knows?
Bill in SD
Lord Bodak
Member
The slide is only that way on the 9mm version. It's the equivalent of the L variant of the Beretta Cougar. As far as I can tell, the 8040F and the Stoeger in .40 are virtually identical.
Skywarp
member
any word on the 8357?
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