Quantcast

Stop comparing RKBA to driving

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by silicosys4, Jan 30, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,602
    It is starting to bother me when people tell me that comparing someones right to keep and bear arms is analogous to people's "rights" to drive. Some clarification is needed when people say "you don't have the right to drive your car however you like, so why should you have the right to whatever guns you want?" and conversely, "we don't ban cars because of DUI drivers"
    The truth is, owners of motor vehicles have more rights than gun owners, in the enjoyment of their property.

    I can buy a car in any state, without registering. I can buy a boat in any state without registering, I can buy a motorcycle without registering, etc. It doesn't need to be "safe to drive" or "pedestrian friendly" or even "not going to kill me immidiately". It can be a deathtrap waiting to rear its ugly head.
    There is no bleeding heart "save the children, don't let a deathtrap car into public hands!" outcry about the condition of cars available for public sale, is there?

    You can buy the most polluting, ugly, broke down, dangerous to pedestrian, nonfunctional brakes, motor ready to blow up and kill bystanders with shrapnel, etc... all without registering it.
    You can even drive the hell out of it, put 100k miles on it too

    If you own the private property to keep it on,
    own land to drive it,
    and posess the money to fuel it.

    Ownership of a vehicle requires NO such thing as registration.
    However, operating it on public roadways does require licensing.
    Ownership of vehicles is not a direct analogy for ownership of firearms, as cars/vehicles are still available for unrestricted use on private property, whereupon a regulated firearm does not allow for use even on your own private land.

    This is why people who compare your rights to own a firearm to someones privileges to drive a car need to be corrected,
    and why gun owners who compare mass shootings with DUI drivers are incorrect as well...as the operation of a vehicle on public roads DOES require registration and proof of ability, whereupon owning a firearm does not.
     
  2. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,369
    Didn't we just have a thread on this exact subject?
     
  3. Gordon_Freeman

    Gordon_Freeman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    433
    Location:
    Ravenholm
    Driving is not a right.
     
  4. Utryme

    Utryme Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    34
    Ownership of a vehicle is not spelled out in our constitution. RKBA is and it is for defense against the Government. There aren't many things as crystal clear as that amendment. We need to stand strong. If your going to compare it, compare it to another amendment.

    Good message, I like it!
     
  5. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,276
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    The "right to own or drive a vehicle" is not mentioned in the Constitution because the founders were practical people who understood the government should not interfere with the "God given rights" men inherently had just by being born. They did add the right to defend themselves against man, beast, and specifically governments in the Bill of Rights because they understood the corrupting nature of governments.
     
  6. Rezin

    Rezin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Driving is a privilege, not a right.
     
  7. roadchoad

    roadchoad Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    421
    Driving on public property is a privilege, yes. Freedom of travel is a right. Don't get the two confused.
     
  8. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,602
    I disagree. Generally speaking, if you own the property and the car, driving on your own property IS a right. Driving on public roadways is not. In the future if things stay the same as far as vehicular regulation, no matter how hard internal combustion engines are regulated for emissions, you'll have the right to drive whatever smoking dinosaur of a tractor you want to, or that 1977 dodge farm truck that hasn't passed emissions since '86..... all over your own property....as long as you are off the public road system.

    However, no matter how deep on your own property you are, a regulated firearm is still illegal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  9. Quick Draw McGraw

    Quick Draw McGraw Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Ottawa IL
    OP, you have made some very good points about the differences between guns and cars, specifically with regard to how they are operated on public roads.

    I thank you, and will be sure to use these points in the future when I discuss gun control and compare cars to guns. :evil:
     
  10. gossamer

    gossamer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    Please see my response to your post in the other thread where you posted the same thing.

    I'm not arguing that driving and gun ownership are the same. But you are in this post conflating driving and conducting a car transaction.

    While you are correct that it is legal to buy a car without registering it, in my state it is om fact illegal to sell a car without the title. The title is issued by the state.

    So you do have to involve the state in that transaction, unless you want to be in violation of the law.

    Sure, you can do all sorts of things with this illegally obtained vehicle, but if you want to be completely legal, the state has to be involved.
     
  11. enine

    enine Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Ohio
    silicosys4 hit on what I was going to say. You can drive on your own property without any regulations, license, insurance, etc. Some states you can even drive a limited distance away from your property with less regulations if your vehicle has "farm use only" painted on the side. I know I did well before I had a license.
    Guns are already way more regulated, I can't buy certain guns to use only on my property, or even build my own like we did farm vehicles at times.
     
  12. Akita1

    Akita1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Hell (FL)
    Ignorance question: in which state can you purchase a car without need of a title (I live in FL and we need them here)? Yes, I know you don't always need an operator's license or a tag/plate but you do if you want to drive it off your property…which begs the question, what good is a vehicle unless it's work-related on your farm or for transport/work on another substantially-sized property, like your private coal mine.
     
  13. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    984
    Location:
    South Central Alaska
    Analogies aren't perfect. Some are better than others, but given enough scrutiny, ALL analogies break down. That's why they're called analogies, and not equivalent comparisons.
     
  14. Akita1

    Akita1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Hell (FL)
    Repeat post: my internet is twitchy today
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  15. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,602
    Gossamer...Yes, in my state you can purchase a vehicle without a title. It is prudent to get a notarized bill of sale if you purchase a vehicle in this state that you might want to have titled for use on public roadways, but even that bill of sale is voluntary and is not required by law, except to prove ownership in the event that you apply for a title.

    In Washington it is legal for a vehicle to be sold without a title, as long as the vehicle is not stolen, and will not be used on public roads. There are plenty of drag cars and "mud trucks" here that will never on a public road again, that have no titles or can't pass safety for a title, lost titles, totaled title that will never be eligible to register again, etc...
    One can apply for a lost title if one doesn't have a title, and then submit to a state patrol safety inspection, if one wishes to register a vehicle for a title that does not already have one.
    There are plenty of vehicles running around out there without titles. People buy property all the time with old cars on them, without titles, and aren't committing crimes.
    As long as the vin doesn't come up stolen.

    In Washington also, if your insurance company says your car was totaled from an accident, you MUST surrender the title, but you have the option of buying back the car...looots of drag cars start their race days like this....no title but legal to own and drive on a private track.

    Requirements
    Either you or your insurance company must report that the vehicle has been declared salvage, and surrender your Certificate of Ownership (title) to us.
    The registered or legal owner must surrender the Certificate of Ownership within 15 days of the destruction.
    An insurance company must surrender the Certificate of Ownership within 15 days after the settlement of claim.
    For more detail, see RCW 46.12.600

    How to report a vehicle is salvaged
    When you report a salvage vehicle and surrender the title, you must:
    Give us all of the following information:
    Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
    Vehicle license plate number
    Name and address of the registered owner
    Name and address of the legal owner (if applicable)
    Name and address of the insurance company that declared the vehicle salvage (if applicable)
    Provide a statement indicating whether or not the market value threshold amount was met.
    Write the word “destroyed” across the face of the Certificate of Ownership (title).
    Market Value Threshold
    The vehicle meets the definition of the “market value threshold” if it:
    Is 6–20 years old.
    Its a passenger vehicle, light-duty truck, or sport utility vehicle (SUV).
    and
    Had a retail value of $7,880 or more before being destroyed, damaged, wrecked, or declared a total loss.
    Frequently asked questions
    Can a vehicle that is declared salvage still be legally driven?
    No. The vehicle can’t legally be driven or parked on public highways or roads until a new title has been issued. (but it can still be owned, and driven on private properties.)

    What are my options once a vehicle has been declared a total loss?
    You have 4 options for what to do next:
    Sell the vehicle to a new owner (include the Notice of Cancellation letter and a notarized bill of sale). <-----this replaces the title and is not required to be submitted to any agency, since the car is ineligible to be titled again without a state patrol safety inspection.

    Keep the vehicle and repair it.
    Keep the vehicle without repairing it.
    Use the vehicle for parts.
    To find out more about each of thes
    http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/salvaged.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice