MCgunner wrote:
Flintknapper, while I realize I "don't own the deer", look at it from a game management perspective.
I prefer to look at it from ALL perspectives and not narrow it all down to "game management". The issue is broader than that.
These dogs are feral and they harass and kill wildlife. They need to be eliminated. They aren't natural.
I would submit that SOME dogs are feral and it is true...some...harass (perhaps kill) wildlife. However, it is neither fair...nor accurate to suggest that ALL dogs are doing so.
This where the "shoot all dogs" mentality is spawned. Is it too much to ask...for hunters/landowners/stewards to first "assess" the situation to best of their ability?
I've come across deer kills that I suspect were dogs because a coyote kills to eat, so does a bobcat.
I doubt you have come any significant number and even if you have...it would be nearly impossible to distinguish a "Coyote" kill from a "Feral dog" kill. If you happened upon a fresh kill, then it is entirely possible that you simply disturbed the "consumption" that was about to take place.
Now, if you have empirical evidence (actually saw it take place, noted larger tracks than a coyote could make, something....) then I'm with you, but not simply "suspected".
My degree is in Wildlife and Fisheries Science so I tend to think of things in a management perspective anyway even though I was an "aquatic type" in college, because that's how I'm wired.
That is your privilege of course, but there is so much more to life.
I don't think in terms of the dog being "man's best friend". I don't anthropomorpize animals.
Nor do I. I have lived in the country nearly all of my life (55 yrs). I am keenly aware of the ecology (balance of things) and being a good steward of ALL things concerning the land, wildlife and resources.
I have livestock....and have had to shoot a few dogs in the past that were actively attacking them. I am not timid about "what needs to done", but I am discerning.
Weed out the emotion and look at it logically is all I'm saying. I'm not so much trying to save the poor little deer from the big bad wolf, I'm killing an un-natural predator that is a real problem in the wild.
In cases where feral dogs have "packed up" or if a single dog is repeatedly sighted harassing, chasing, etc, I am on board with you.....they can be a problem. Fortunately, (from my experience) this is a rare problem. The harassment, destruction of livestock is a much greater problem, but not the subject here.
The way one manages problems with feral animals if it's possible (feral hogs may not be) is to eliminate the problem. If hogs didn't have such a high natality rate, they wouldn't be causing YOU problems, either. You could simply eliminate them. Hey, hogs are smart animals, not warm, fuzzy, cuddly as dogs, but some folks keep 'em as pets.
I appreciate the attempt to equate my feral hog problem with that of an occasional stray/feral/pet dog, but honestly...its two different things. Feral hog populations (in Texas) are approaching that of the total deer population (4 million). Obviously.. a problem on a "whole nother scale" and one that is unlikely to involve one's pet.
I'm not that affected with warm and fuzzy, myself, though I'll sit around and pet and nuzzle my cat like a friggin' 4 year old kid. I do understand the attachment to pets, just don't let it cloud my logic for proper management.
So...which would be your decision if a "collared, healthy" dog were to come across your property during deer season, with it's nose to the ground?
Do you give the animal "a pass" assuming it to be someones property/pet....or does the urge to "manage" dictate the outcome?
Yes, it's illegal to kill nuisance dogs......shhhhhhhhh.
Yes it is, and there are substantial fines associated with it. But more importantly, we should not take a caviler attitude toward laws we don't agree with. Work to get them changed or amended. There is a need...no question about it.
Those laws were pushed through last decade by animal rights idiots, and I use idiots because I won't type the words here that I really think about 'em.
More likely in response to the wholesale slaughter of any uncollared or free roaming dog. The laws have different effects depending upon where you live and how many dogs are present. It is a rare problem for me (rural property)...but I can see it being a huge problem for those in urban areas.
I only ask that each person carefully consider the true status of the animal before thinking about killing it.
I want to confess a "jaundiced" outlook on this subject, one formed from having lost my Lab to some hunters from Dallas. Not a "feral" dog, collared (fluorescent orange), never chased a deer his life. But....cut the corner of a neighboring property to go visit another neighbors dog (a daily occurrence and vise versa).
There are no leash laws where I live and neighbors dogs routinely visit here as well. Everyone knows this...and we generally have no problems.
Even during deer season....there is little to worry about. One of the "hunters" from Dallas confessed to the shooting (he had the same NO DOGS attitude) as some here have adopted. Even though the dog was not doing anything wrong.
My neighbor was horrified and as upset as I was about it. He had just leased the property to the three (men?) that year and had in no way given permission to shoot anything but deer.
Now, I am sure someone is itching to write "If you had kept your dog penned it wouldn't have happened". Yes, but that is not the rural custom where I live and the practice of "discernment/assessment" would have prevented this too.
IMO, (not based upon this incident) there are far too many people eager to pull the trigger on dogs of unknown status.... than there are legitimate shootings.
I can't tell you the number of people (some I would never suspect) that shoot and brag about having killed a dog that came across their property/lease. When asked about it....you get the usual response/defense: Was running deer (or presumed to be), was on MY property (no other reason needed), ruined my hunt (retaliation), could be rabid (oh please....), my Dad always shot them (okay.......?) etc.
Please "assess"! And be honest with yourself about why you feel animal should be dispatched. Don't just immediately fall into the "its for management" camp or any other of the plethora of excuses people come up with.
