Stop the traitors? - a little uncommon sense?

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Here is commentary from the WSJ today. Remember, the Constitution does allow for the suspension of Habeas Corpus, by Congress in times of crises. The constitution to quote Clancy in 'Executive Powers' is not a suicide pact.

COMMENTARY

In Good Company

By STEPHAN NEWHOUSE

For most Americans, Abraham Lincoln is remembered as the Great Emancipator who ended slavery in America and proclaimed "a new birth of freedom" for Americans in his immortal address delivered at Gettysburg in 1863, in the middle of the Civil War.

What is less remembered about Lincoln is that two years before Gettysburg he had been the first American president to suspend the writ of habeas corpus, that most basic of Anglo-American civil liberties wrested from King John in Magna Carta 650 years earlier, and which guarantees that citizens can't be detained indefinitely without a court appearance. Nor does his legacy usually include a whole series of other draconian curtailments of civil rights that he imposed as the American Civil War dragged on and on.

These included the military arrest, detention, and trial by military tribunals of hundreds of civilians, suppression of newspapers, confiscation of property and denial of the mails to "treasonable correspondence." In an outrageous grand finale to his extra-legal actions, Lincoln had a duly elected Ohio Congressman arrested for expressing "treasonable utterances." He subsequently ordered Congressman Clement Laird Vallandigham banished to the Confederacy.

By 1940, over a year before the United States entered WW II, Franklin D. Roosevelt had begun authorizing the wiretapping of large numbers of "persons suspected of subversive activity against the United States." In that same year, he prodded his reluctant attorney general to indict 26 pro-fascist Americans on a dubious charge of criminal conspiracy. Ultimately, in perhaps the most notorious suspension of the rights of its citizens in American history, he sanctioned the forcible relocation and detention of tens of thousand of Americans of Japanese descent. His accomplice in this outrage was the then Attorney General of California, Earl Warren, of whom we will hear more later.

Other examples of repressive zeal justified by perceived threats to the national security include the notorious Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 which a remorseful President John Adams later called the biggest blunder of his political life, the Espionage Act of 1917, under which scores of Americans were arrested for no other crimes but intemperate speech, and, of course, the McCarthy era, which many Americans still remember but would like to forget.

What does this periodic abridgement or suspension of civil liberties, even in the most progressive and open of societies, tell us? First, that in the face of perceived mortal danger to the body politic itself, civil liberties always move to the rear of the bus, at least temporarily. Drastic circumstances require drastic action, the theory goes, and saving the nation takes preference over the niceties of civil rights. "Was it possible to lose the nation, and yet preserve the Constitution?" Lincoln queried.

Roosevelt, too, acknowledged that his actions were often extra-legal but claimed to have "the power under the Constitution to take measures necessary to prevent a disaster that would interfere with winning the war." He did not cite any specific Constitutional authority for that sweeping assertion. Both Lincoln and FDR acknowledged that their autocratic behavior was only justified in time of crises. "When the war is won," said Roosevelt, "the powers under which I act automatically revert to the people -- to whom they belong."

Where does that leave us today? First it is hard to argue that, in the intervening years, the pendulum of civil liberties has not swung pretty far in the direction of individual license. A principal architect of the swing was none other than that same Earl Warren. As chief justice, he presided over the most civil liberal Supreme Court the U.S. has ever had, presumably in expiation of previous sins.

But now comes the perception of a new threat to which this much cherished openness in the Western democracies seems to make us frighteningly vulnerable. The saga of the 9/11 terrorists nonchalantly taking flying lessons in Florida, transferring funds hither and yon -- and touring the world with impunity to meet with their co-conspirators -- would seem almost farcical if the results had not been so tragic.

The range of legitimate responses to the new "asymmetric" threat does not include detention of citizens because of their ethnic origin or religious preference. Nor does it include exiling opposition politicians or closing down critical press. On the other hand, it probably does not exclude a more intrusive intelligence and surveillance regime, search and seizure guidelines that are less punctilious, tighter enforcement of the integrity of borders, and generally less privacy than we are used to.

This is probably inevitable under the circumstances, and we need to get over it and get on with it. Concerns that the medicine may be more dangerous than the disease are, in my opinion, unfounded. The "war powers" of Lincoln and Roosevelt did not extend beyond the crises. There is no reason to believe that the measures taken in response to the present threat, while significant, will not ultimately be reasonable and, in many if not most cases, will be of limited duration. As they have always been in the past.

Lincoln asked rhetorically "Must a government, of necessity, be too strong for the liberties of its people, or too weak to maintain its own existence?" Hopefully the answer, once again, will be "no."

Mr. Newhouse is chairman of Morgan Stanley International.

Updated August 18, 2003
 
A Crucial Distinction!

I understand that in an emergency liberty must be curtailed in measured degrees. But we must take great care to carefully define the conditions under which that emergency exists.

I desperately fear that the United States has indicated that This emergency is caused by the existance of those who believe in asymetrical attacks to further their socio/political agenda.

The question is how do we know when we have won? What conditions will have to exist in order for us to return to freedom? Without determining the criteria for existance, we cannot prove their absence.

This article does well to illustrate the repeated attempts to bleed Liberty away from the people.
 
Hmm. He forgot to mention Lincoln's illegal war against a peaceful neighboring nation, the massive loss of life and property that followed, and the deep wound from which our country still suffers.

And FDR was certainly no friend of liberty. Throw the "Japs" in jail, anyone?


Bringing these two as example of how we can trust gummit with illegal powers is not exactly reassuring! We're still paying with lost liberties because of those two.
 
Bush, Ashcroft, et al may need a slave to ride beside them and whisper in their ear "remeber sir, thou art mortal". Or, more appropriately, "Remeber sir, sic semper tyrannis".

GinSlinger
 
Frankie, I respect the ones who stand up against what America is becoming and are speaking out about it... The ones as yourself who pretend all is well are the poison in America's veins. It is true though, ignorance is bliss. As for people trying to get to America... I live here because of the freedoms I currently have, even though I may lose them in the future. And the way things are going, that may be sooner rather than later.

And as for you being sick of it. I'm sick of people being in such a state of ignorance they have no clue what is going on.... You see, it works both ways. Being a veteran doesn't give you a monopoly of the truth either.

Jits
 
Frankie, I took that same oath. And that's what I'm doing. The ones who are tearing it down are not the ones pointing out the problems.

The ones who are tearing it down are the ones who are ignoring our constitution. "My country right or wrong" I can agree with.


"My counrry can do no wrong" is not.
 
I really hate to see second rate minds doing fourth rate things to a nation. I wore the uniform too Frankie. We more than anybody should be upset with where this country is headed.
 
Frankie,
I wore Army green for 29 years. but I took my understood my oath to mean that everyone has a right to speak out, not just those who agree with me.

Let me ask you one question. How would you have felt about the USA Patriot Act if the Clinton-Reno justice department was administering it?

IMHO one of the worst things we can do is give up any rights to anyone, even those professing to be on our side. First off, our side will not always be in power. And second, if we have no respect for the rule of law and the constitution in one area, we surely can expect it to eventually lose in all areas. Once it becomes the end justifies the means, then our constitution means no more then the old Soviet one did. Some things have to remain inviolate. The Bill of Rights is one of them. Once it becomes a living document, subject to the whims of society at the time, it becomes meaningless.

Jeff
 
I dont know if they make flamesuits strong enough to save me from what I am about to walk into.

I am a member of the blame America first crowd...

(can't believe I haven't been killed yet)

But I am not a member of the blame only America crowd.

Let me explain with an analogy. When I find that I am not living the life that I want, I first make sure that I am doing everything right. Once I have eliminated my own culpability, I move on find any other cause. When the country discovers that it is not what it desires, it must first examine itself to ensure that it is not causing it's own problems. Then it can search elsewhere for the cause.

The very practical reason for this ODALoop is that it is easier to fix a problem in your own backyard than at city hall. It is also evident that if my problem is internal to me, then it will follow me whatever I may do elsewhere. It is easier for a country to adjust its own actions, than to try to control Syria.

I must be clear here, Sometimes you have to goto city hall. Sometimes you have to kill. Sometimes you have to overthrow foriegn governments to deprive your enemies refuge from your wrath.

But first make sure you aren't culpable.

Abe Lincoln once said "I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend." I think that is true. At the same time "whengood comprimises with evil, then evil is the victor."

3...
2...
1...
:sound of DW being fried to a crisp:
 
DW, I agree... However, with the recent Patriot Act and the new version of the Patriot Act called the "Vitory Act" which Ashcroft seems so desperate to promote. It does cause one to question his motives. Then you have the release of the Northwoods documents ( http://www.public-action.com/911/northwds.pdf ) because of the Freedom of Information Act where it explicitly details our government carrying out "terrorist" acts to blame on other countries so they can pass laws that take more of our rights... Recently you have the Pentagon and their idea of betting on American casualties due to "terrorist" acts... And you have to wonder, how did the felon Poindexter even get into the Pentagon? You have Haliburton who was handed the contract to rebuild Iraq who Cheney still is associated with... There were never even open bids on the rebuilding Iraq project. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush who aided the Nazis but was never tried for treason. Yet people walk around thinking all is well... What is this, the twilight zone?

Jits
 
No need to flame

Frankie and Digital, there should be no need for you to worry about being flamed(well maybe Frankie...strong opening statement, my friend.) :D

Why is it, so many people for so many years from so many other countries make such an attempt to get into the United States, yet so many Americans find so much fault with America? Are you part of the Blame America First crowd?

Well, speaking for myself, I don't think I'm a member of the Blame America crowd. I feel people are trying to get in because our way of doing things is the best way in the world! Flat out, without a question(although from some of the posts or our Scandanavian visitors...).

Anyway, we are the best, but, you can't fool yourself into thinking we are perfect. Once again, not by a long shot.

I think Mr. White has a great point...how would you feel about the Patriot Act if it was still the Clinton's or a Gore in the White House.

As far as their being no 'Secret Group to take our Rights Away', once again, I agree with you. It's a very non-secret group called Politicians...

greg
 
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