Stopped by the Hornady web site

[Guy B. Meredith]

...after seeing some remarks here about a new priming system.

One of the idiosyncracies of the original LNL AP is the priming system. I have press serial number 650 or so. Primer #100 always hangs up and you have to do a few extra strokes to coax it out. Usually I just run rounds #97 through #99 through the powder, powder check (RCBS lockout die) and seat/crimp and by that time primer #100 usually shows up. May need to turn the on/off switch on and off once.

To load primers the entire shield tube, primer tube and base need to be unscrewed and removed. The primer tube is used as the pickup tube.

Well, the new priming system gets rid of the plastic pieces, uses a separate primer pick up tube and the shield and primer tube never come off. Works really well and removes just about the last bit of drama in reloading. I went through 400 rounds before I was mentally ready to accept "job done".

I considered purchasing a few extra pickup tubes so that I could have all the primers pre-setup and ready for a straight through loading session, but the break to reload the primers and get a cup of coffee is part of my ritual so I don't know if I will do that.

Now if I could just afford that case feeder. Unfortunately presses before serial number 7000 require a $65 subplate (Lock, Stock and Barrel) so the entire setup would be

Case feeder: $168.75
Case feeder plate: 23.50
Updated subplate: 64.50

Total: $196.75

Ankyone here had experience with the case feeder? Preliminary comments on the case feeder were not good, but more recent comments seem positive.

I also note that the micrometer or measure insert for the powder now boasts a button operated changeout. At $315 for a new press with the primer upgrade and the new powder measure inserts/micrometer I am tempted to pick up another press and get into rifle calibers.

 

[uglymofo]

Hey Guy,

I've got an early press, too. I've yet to break down for the new shellplate and priming system.

Hornady's chickensh*t "warranty" has me spittin' seeds so badly that I'm too mad to go to their site and see what you're talking about. RCBS and Dillon treat the consumer right; Hornady ranks last in a field of 'The Big 7'--RCBS, Dillon, Redding, Forster, Lyman, Lee (yes, Lee) and then comes Hornady. I've dealt with all of them at least once.

I've used RCBS countless times; never a problem, and always, no questions asked. Once, they replaced the entire guts on my Pro-Melt lead furnace for FREE --on/off switch, heating element, thermostat, spout, handle, and pot, even though I'd sent it in with a request saying that I'd stored it in the garage for 15 years (it had rusted, and wouldn't heat up). Its' warranty (2 years) was long expired, and I said that I would pay for all charges. Their service, including return shipping was free.

I've got a Dillon 450; I lost the brass primer feed tubes in a move from one house to another last year. The 450 has been out of production for at least a decade, I think. They upgraded the entire priming system with a 550 replacement, at no charge.

Here I sit with my pre-#7000 Hornady LNL AP. Hornady engineers and their marketing department have agreed enough with customer complaints that they've redesigned the priming system, and acquiesced to customer demand for a casefeeder system. Yet neither of these refits are supported under warranty?? These cheapskates even grind you for money for replacement springs.


Someday I may break down and pay the money; it's not a question of cost, I can afford it. But I'll be damned if I pay to refit my press to set it up for an upgrade. I'd rather sell the press and buy a Dillon. I can't tell you how that hurts to say it. The Hornady is so convenient (and SO much cheaper) to change calibers. Even with these "extra charges" the price rivals a 650. That's not the point. It shouldn't cost us anything to refurbish a press to common industry standards.

I'm sorry to hijack your thread.

Just the mention of Hornady's newest "offerings" makes my blood boil.

 

[cdbeaver]

My experience with Hornady has been entirely different, though on another piece of equipment.

I bought an L-N-L powder measure at a retail store. When I got it home, I discovered that the powder measuring tube had been jammed into the cylinder during shipment (from the factory to the dealer).

I immediately called Hornady. They suggested a remedy; it didnt' work. I asked if it was okay to ship it back to them for replacement parts. "Do it," was the response.

Three days after I mailed it to Hornady, it was returned, postage paid, and it worked great. Never a charge (as it should be).

I have no experience with Hornady loading presses or dies.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I have mixed reaction. When I bought my press it came with a .40 cal plate or some such. The store would not trade for the .38 spl/.357 mag plate I wanted. They wanted me to buy an additional plate and keep one I would never use so I checked with Hornady and they did the trade.

Later I was asking Hornady about something that I cannot now remember. The party on the line told me that there is an upgrade for the knuckle that carries the action from the handle and has the indexing mechanism. They sent one out free of charge though I had not known about it or asked for it.

Now the knuckle did have some serious reliability fixes and it is good they are replacing that.

On the other hand the priming system is not a "reliability" upgrade per se as the original system can continue working without failure, just the inconvenience of #100 and the on/off switch. I would have very graciously accepted a free replacement primer system, but not necessarily expected it.

Likewise, the case feeder is not a reliability issue, but an accessory. It would be a good gesture to provide the subplate to loyal customers, though it IS a major piece. Dunno if they would recoup cost of sending out the plates in revenue from the case feeder.

I am amazed that press manufacturers often supply parts lost to normal wear or even abuse. The Mazda dealership would sure not supply worn springs, etc. for our car or accessory upgrades to current models free of charge and I do not expect other manufacturers to do it either. On the other hand this seems to almost have become a standard practice with the press manufacturers so any who fail to do so look out of step with this particular market.

 

[robctwo]

I just bought the LnL and am very happy with it. I bought the case feeder and the subplate thinking that I needed it. I assumed I was getting an older frame for the $299. price they were asking. My press is the updated one, so I have the subplate ready to go back to Graf's. I paid $65.00 for it. I will need to pay postage and they have a 10% restocking fee. I would just as soon send it to one of you guys for the same price. If you want to see it I'll take a photo and post it.

The subplate is the case feeder ramp. It also houses the primer slide and the base for the primer unit. There is a hand held unit I'm looking at to speed load the primers, but the primer pickup isn't a real big deal to me.

I've been loading 9mm. I get 250 to 300 per hour when I'm working. 200 just goofing along. The ammo is very uniform. I am thinking of getting the pistol fitting for the powder measure. I'm not totally happy with the accuracy of the regular one. I vary .1grain on powder charges, and think the fine adjustment might be more accurate.

I am over 2,000 rounds loaded. I really like the 5.1gr AA#5 OAL 1.080, Berry 124 gr. FN plated bullet. These are really soft shooters through my Sig 226 and scary accurate.

 

[uglymofo]

Robctwo,

Thanks very much for the offer. I'll take it, if Guy doesn't. I think I should at least give him the first shot at it, since he started this thread and I "hijacked" it. I'd much rather you get the money than Hornady. I'll not spend except where absolutely required, for Hornady equipment anymore.

I understand the position most (will or might) take against my view. On the General Discussion thread, Stupor Dave makes a good point, and I don't disagree with his logic. I used to have a '92 T-bird SC. With the factory blower it was surprisingly quick. However, in 1993, Ford came out with a revision and the '93 blower was even more powerful; I wished I'd waited a year. As it was, in '95 I swapped out for the newer blower, and I never begrudged spending the $1800 for the updated supercharger. But then again, Ford guaranteed my satisfaction with the original product, and they stood by it.

I've been to the new Hornady site. For those who never visited the old site or don't remember, they used to have in BIG red letters a slogan akin to "we guarantee customer satisfaction", like you'll find over at RCBS', Dillon and the Redding webpages. To their credit, the new website doesn't mention one word about customer satisfaction, service, nor warranty pledge. I don't wonder why.

Y'all might think, oh this (shellplate) is too big an item, or issue, to warranty. However, that stand ignores what obviously has held the Hornady reloading name back, in the shadow of RCBS and Dillon--Hornady even refuses to warranty such minimal items as retaining and ejection springs. Yes, RCBS and Dillon go out of their way to insure their reputation and customer satisfaction, but they're not the norm, and a business is run to make money, blah, blah.

I recall reading another reader on 1911.com whose ejection spring was bent because of a mis-timed stroke because the 'rotation cams' were out of time. He claimed the Hornady technician said he'd have to pay for it, because the cam was "obviously tampered with by a user" since they're all timed at the factory. and I'm sure that's what the user did--he screwed up his machine . The Hornady supervisor backed the technician's position, so that guy paid for a spring, whatever the charge was. That's a pretty good example of chickensh*t if I ever saw one.

I didn't believe it, until my own personal experience-- I kept destroying case retaining springs--they were crimped or sheared because of a faulty priming sled, which cycled my shellplate out of time and tore up these fragile springs. Even though I was on the phone several times about the primer slide's erratic delivery, the primer problem wasn't sorted out for several months, in which time I'd paid for several replacement springs and shipping. This general attitude by Hornady, alleging user "abuse" and therefore, non-qualifying service, is the real annoyance.

I committed to the Hornady system in the belief that should anything need troubleshooting, they were as good in their warranty service as the rest of the industry. Obviously, I am both wrong and suffer from a disillusion. Hornady's "in your face" service makes that plain. I'll stick with my position--it's obvious Hornady even agrees--the original priming system is a dog, and needed replacing.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I am sorely tempted, but am currently house poor in terms of time and money. Just took official leave of RO and club duties for a year.

I could handle the $38 for the primer feed and one shooting day every couple of weeks as a small "reward", but need to be patient for big stuff. Since I have been 30 years patient is being able to buy our own home, I'll pass to uglymofo.

Glad to see his interest as the chance to help another THR member was really testing my self control.

 

[robctwo]

email is [email protected]. let's work out the details.

 

[uglymofo]

My sincere apologies to Guy. I realize my dissatisfaction with Hornady has waylaid this thread. I will not post again on the subject. I sent Robctwo an email concerning the shellplate.


And more to the point, has anyone an opinion on the Hornady LNL AP case feeder system?

 

[Cortland]

I have a casefeeder on my post-7000 LNL AP press. It's awesome -- I love it.

I've found that the motor is strong, but be aware that the casefeeder plates have friction fit hubs that come from the factory pretty loose, which causes the hubs to spin within the plates (and thus the plate not to turn) with relatively few cases in the hopper. Snug the hubs up a little (but not all the way of course, you still want them to be able to spin if the feeder jams) and the plate will works with a really a lot of cases and no sign or sound of stress on the motor.

That said, I've never experienced any jams feeding from the hopper to the tube or any cases put in the tube upside down.

There are a number of ways the casefeeder can be configured; it basically boils down to small pistol/large pistol and small rifle/large rifle. Depending on what you start with and what you switch to, I'd say conversion should take about 5 minutes.

The timing of the feeder (how fast and at what point in the cycle to case is fed into the shellplate) is easy to adjust and only needs to be done once. If the timing isn't adjusted correcly the cases will jam feeding into the shellplate.

You can also completely deactivate the casefeeder by unscrewing a single knurled nut. This is nice for when you want to do a small run of ammo without using the casefeeder.

My only gripe is that Hornady says the feeder will work with any case for which they make a shellplate. Not true! The feeder does not work with, and cannot be made to work with (due to the height of the pivot block) .32 S&W (aka .32 short). This is probably the shortest case out there; the feeder should work with any case as long as or longer than a 32 ACP. I've switched to .32 S&W Longs so I can use the casefeeder for my .32s.

The casefeeder also attaches differently depending on your press. On the pre-7000 presses, it attaches by tightening pins into opposite sides of the press frame; the post-7000 press frames are drilled and tapped for the feeder to bolt directly to it (which seems more secure).

Anyway, I would recommend the casefeeder whole-heartedly.

The Lock-N-Load style powder measure is really very nice, especially when coupled with the micrometer adjustment and the drain insert; I'd highly recommend it. If you go a whole new press, you can get it from Grafs, shipped, for $303. Lock Stock has good prices on Hornady accessories, but also check Bose's Guns, their prices are sometimes a little better.

Regarding the subplate, I do think that Hornady is justified in charging for an upgrade. The new one adds additional functionality that you weren't buying when you bought the machine. You've got to pay for it somewhere. I'd rather have a company charge me a fair price for their product and also charge me a fair price for upgrades than have a company (no names ) overcharge me on the product and give out free parts and upgrades like candy. The 650 costs $140 more than the LNL for a reason, and it has nothing to do with the press.

I do think Hornady should send out free upgraded primers system to people who have trouble with the old one.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

uglymofo,

No appologies needed. The purpose of this forum is to share information, sometimes in the form of opinion, sometimes just raw data. Aren't too many articles in the masses of magazine and newspaper comsumer, social and sport sections for firearms owners.

Keep the information flowing.

By the way, between robctwo's need to move a plate and Cortland's encouraging comments my financial self control is taking a real beating. I will persevere, however, in part bolstered by the fact that my car was stolen from my garage last night. (Stupid us for not double checking the garage door.) Couldn't get more than $1000 out of the car, but it will be a problem trying to replace it.

 

[uglymofo]

You're very gracious, Guy.

I didn't know that kind of 'boldness' occurred in San Ramon. Maybe it's snobbery or even the ostrich syndrome, but when I lived in Danville, it sure seemed a tamer, quieter town. The monthly report of crime incidents could be counted on one hand. I'm sorry to hear about your problem. Hopefully, its' just an incident of 'joyriding' and the car will turn up in undamaged condition.

 

[Valkman]

I will persevere, however, in part bolstered by the fact that my car was stolen from my garage last night.

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH! Sorry to hear that! He's probably 15 and if he gets caught he'll be back on the street before you get the car fixed.

:banghead:

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

The officer who took our report said that the return rate here is very high. Usually bored kids from "over the hill" in Richmond, Hayward, etc. who drive awhile and drop it off near home.

San Ramon IS very low crime, but sometimes it comes to you if you are not alert. Self defense is an awareness thing. Don't know whether the "Sunny Glen Senior Community" sign out front implies easy victims.

Other than the car, my biggest concerns are that they did not wake us, that they may have noted the reloading equipment next to the car and now have our front door keys. Oh well, I've been wanting to change that front lock for some time now, anyway.

 

[coorsleftfield]

Buy your case feeder from Cabelas, and they give you the sub plate for free..
At least thats what happened when I bought mine..$68 savings over
LS&B