Wildalaska
member
Got any facts to support that?
Strange Bedfellows
- Thread starter Mark Tyson
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Got any facts to support that?
Good question. While there is a higher likelyhood of liberal bias among media heads, I don't see the correlation with them being gay.
Friends and neighbors, I'm proud of the way y'all have been conducting yourselves in this thread. Even the dissenters are polite and without flames. That is what The High Road is about!
That said, I think we're pretty much beating an expired equine by now, don'tcha think?
Friends and neighbors, I'm proud of the way y'all have been conducting yourselves in this thread. Even the dissenters are polite and without flames. That is what The High Road is about!
That said, I think we're pretty much beating an expired equine by now, don'tcha think?
I dunno. Something not kosher about accepting gays on account of their political clout. Either you accept them, or you don't. Why should their views towards the 2nd be the deciding factor? Ulterior motive, and not completely honest.
The ends justify the means, I guess.
The ends justify the means, I guess.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
actually pax, the first sentence of my post you quoted from should have indicated that my ventures into the vast public are solo, and for all intents and purposes, will remain solo, if not by force, than by choice.
i'm surprised this thread has stayed open this long. i am very disappointed that people still make judgements about others. i hate to continue bringing religion in here, but if our beliefs in a higher entity include condemning the actions of other humans who are just as imperfect as we are, then we've become fundamentalists instead of just believers. maybe the majority dont have a problem being labeled a fundamentalist, but i would rather avoid such a path and realize that if there is a higher entity that will judge all humans, i should only be concerned about what i will be judged for, not for so-and-so over there.
we all shoot. we all support the 2nd Amendment. 'nuff said.
Strings
Member
Not sure...
... if Nualle is still on COFO or not (my pagan gunowners mailing list), but we've been talking about some form of website that could act as a "guidepost" for those of a "minority" to find the shooting sports. We've got the Pink Pistols, JPFO, SAS, the 10th Cav... all dedicated to bringing in "non-traditional" shooters. A central website with links to all the groups (including NRA, GOA, etc) would probably be a good idea...
Of course, I've been talking about this with pagans. Talk about herding cats!:banghead:
... if Nualle is still on COFO or not (my pagan gunowners mailing list), but we've been talking about some form of website that could act as a "guidepost" for those of a "minority" to find the shooting sports. We've got the Pink Pistols, JPFO, SAS, the 10th Cav... all dedicated to bringing in "non-traditional" shooters. A central website with links to all the groups (including NRA, GOA, etc) would probably be a good idea...
Of course, I've been talking about this with pagans. Talk about herding cats!:banghead:
Self defense is a human right
and everyone, including those I disagee with, has that right. I will welcome anyone here who supports RKBA...as supportes of RKBA and fellow shooters, not as homosexuals, heteros, etc.
'course, if you approach me from the standpoint of your beliefs rather than as a fellow shooter, and if your beliefs conflict with mine, then we'll have an argument.
I'd rather be shooting.
and everyone, including those I disagee with, has that right. I will welcome anyone here who supports RKBA...as supportes of RKBA and fellow shooters, not as homosexuals, heteros, etc.
'course, if you approach me from the standpoint of your beliefs rather than as a fellow shooter, and if your beliefs conflict with mine, then we'll have an argument.
I'd rather be shooting.
Whoops, I must not have been as clear as I should have been. "You" in that sentence was a generic "you," rather than a specific "you."
If one goes out in public with a significant other, one's behaviour toward that other speaks volumes as to one's relationship with the other.
Convoluted, but less personal and less likely to be misunderstood.
What I was trying to say is that there's no way not to be "flamboyantly" whatever-you-are.
Often, when a straight says they "don't want to know about it," they are actually saying that they don't want any people around them to give any indication of being whatever-they-are. And that's a fundamental impossibility.
Not only so, it's also fundamentally hypocritical. I say hypocritical because straights behave like straights in public and would be horrified at the idea of behaving like gays simply in order to get along with those around them. Very understandably, they want to behave like what they are instead of like what they're not. When the shoe is on the other foot, though, many straights want gays to act like what they're not instead of like what they are -- on pain of scorning, shunning, spitting, or worse.
Btw, you probably know that 'fundamentalist' isn't a dirty word for many believers (though it is for others). Some consider it merely descriptive ... and to others, it is a badge of honor. Of course, the secular definition of "fundamentalist" and the definition commonly accepted in the Christian sub-culture split radically some time ago. But I agree with your primary point: "To his own Master he stands or falls..." Too many people, Christian and otherwise, want to be the judge of everybody else's behavior. To accept a Christian view of the world means to acknowledge that there is only one Lawgiver and Judge -- and that we are not He.
pax
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -- Andre Gide
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
maybe i just need to quit letting mass media feed the stereotypes i associate with people?
how can you tell if a person is hetero, if you never see them with a sig-other? how can you tell a fair-skinned person is german, russian, polish, if they dont speak with an accent?
personally, i dont like the idea of a fundamentalist. basically, i interpret the word to mean that you are convinced that all your beliefs are correct, and that everyone else should conform to what you believe. anything less is sacrilege.
i dont define 'fundamentalist' any other way. a person can have strong convictions and never waiver in their faith, WITHOUT imposing their systems on others. we sometimes associate 'fundamentalist' with extreme factions, such as islam. a fundamentalist follower of islam is what we see setting off bombs and killing in the name of 'god', inflicting supposed 'divine judgement' on the unbelievers.
i have strong faith, that would only be shaken by definitive proof that my systems are incorrect. but i'm not going to be so presumptious that i will judge other imperfect humans because they are different than i am. and thats what i see being displayed by some here.
i find that sad.
how can you tell if a person is hetero, if you never see them with a sig-other? how can you tell a fair-skinned person is german, russian, polish, if they dont speak with an accent?
personally, i dont like the idea of a fundamentalist. basically, i interpret the word to mean that you are convinced that all your beliefs are correct, and that everyone else should conform to what you believe. anything less is sacrilege.
i dont define 'fundamentalist' any other way. a person can have strong convictions and never waiver in their faith, WITHOUT imposing their systems on others. we sometimes associate 'fundamentalist' with extreme factions, such as islam. a fundamentalist follower of islam is what we see setting off bombs and killing in the name of 'god', inflicting supposed 'divine judgement' on the unbelievers.
i have strong faith, that would only be shaken by definitive proof that my systems are incorrect. but i'm not going to be so presumptious that i will judge other imperfect humans because they are different than i am. and thats what i see being displayed by some here.
i find that sad.
Shalako
Member
Rainbow Power- Special interest group du jour
Catering to special interest groups is something the liberals cooked up to get more votes. The ‘color-blind’ thing had already run its course, so the libs dissected up the social spectrum and say they are more suited to understand and represent you, the people-of-labor, people-of-color, people-of-exceptionality, people-of-gayety, etc.
That’s how they do it. We on the other hand realize that people are valued on their personal merit and not a society prescribed affiliation that defines its members. If we start seeking out each individual special interest group to explain why they need the RKBA, we are fighting the battle on the libs’ terms, and they wrote the book on that one. I say we stick to our guns and say RKBA for all.
Period.
I say 'Welcome Aboard' Pink Pistols and all other RKBA enthusiasts as well.
-Shalako
Catering to special interest groups is something the liberals cooked up to get more votes. The ‘color-blind’ thing had already run its course, so the libs dissected up the social spectrum and say they are more suited to understand and represent you, the people-of-labor, people-of-color, people-of-exceptionality, people-of-gayety, etc.
That’s how they do it. We on the other hand realize that people are valued on their personal merit and not a society prescribed affiliation that defines its members. If we start seeking out each individual special interest group to explain why they need the RKBA, we are fighting the battle on the libs’ terms, and they wrote the book on that one. I say we stick to our guns and say RKBA for all.
Period.
I say 'Welcome Aboard' Pink Pistols and all other RKBA enthusiasts as well.
-Shalako
Mannlicher
Member
These threads can be contentious. Personally, I am fairly non judgmental, but I will never be convinced that any kind of gay lifestyle is proper or right.
That having been said, folks can do what ever they want to behind their own doors. I will always be offended by public displays of affection though, be it gay or hetero.
I feel that any one that has to use his/her sexual preference as the primary indentifier for his/her persona, is a pretty sad person anyway.
so far as gun ownership, what do I care who ownes a gun, as long as their intentions are non threatning towards me.
That having been said, folks can do what ever they want to behind their own doors. I will always be offended by public displays of affection though, be it gay or hetero.
I feel that any one that has to use his/her sexual preference as the primary indentifier for his/her persona, is a pretty sad person anyway.
so far as gun ownership, what do I care who ownes a gun, as long as their intentions are non threatning towards me.
Wildalaska
member
Ever hold your wifes hand in public? You get offended if you see a boy and girl holding hands?
Yes and no?
How about 2 guys holding hands.
Sorry gays have the right to be accepted for what they are, just like anyone else.
gwalchmai
Member
Whether they do or don't, they still have the same 2nd Ammendment rights as you and I - no more, no less. I think that's where the focus needs to stay. Otherwise it'll get pulled into as many directions as there are colors in a rainbow. The antis would love to apply hate crime logic to RKBA and balkanize us.
Resp.
g
I am the co-starter for lack of a better word of the upstate New York chapter of the Pink Pistols. We have about 35 members. On the club level (speaking for our chapter only) are objective is media coverage. That is a preventive measure to give people a second thought that the gay person they are about to harass or bash may be armed. In regards to the political activism with the second amendment we are almost all both NRA and GOA members and are happy lending are support to the cause through these groups. On the practical level we hope to give people who may not have previously taken an interest in or had the oppertunity the training and mindset to be able to defent them selves. Additionally we are a somewhat social fraternity.
The goal was not origianally to be a seperate group to fight for the second ammendment as I understand it. We just by chance found ourselves in a unique situation in regards to the media that allowed us to contribute to that fight and that helps with the goal of deterance as stated above.
Personally I as well as many homosexual persons view my sexuality as only a small part of my personality, one of my many characteristics. I have never made it an issue and no one has ever made it an issue with me. I am lucky enough never to have been harrassed, I asume it is becuase most people would never guess I was gay. I served in the army, I graduated from syracuse university, I work as a state park ranger now. I have fought activly for the second amendment for ten years, I train search dogs, I teach hunter education, I can't spell, I could shoot a different gun every day for 2.5 months and still not have shot them all, I go away to some form of training atleast once a year and all of those things are probally more defing parts of my personality than my sexuality. I don't want to use my sexuality as a barging chip with our elected represenitives but if at the same time it gets the RKBA more press I will begrudginly agree.
Much like the disabled I don't want to be a special interest group I want to be treated the same, as that was the priciple our coutry was founded on "all men are created equal". Heck, I even hate the word homophobia as it implies a fear when more often than not it is a dislike.
And to put a different twist on what was said many times above "a friend of the RKBA is a friend of mine (even if they are religious zealot that hates our constituational freedom to be who we are)
The goal was not origianally to be a seperate group to fight for the second ammendment as I understand it. We just by chance found ourselves in a unique situation in regards to the media that allowed us to contribute to that fight and that helps with the goal of deterance as stated above.
Personally I as well as many homosexual persons view my sexuality as only a small part of my personality, one of my many characteristics. I have never made it an issue and no one has ever made it an issue with me. I am lucky enough never to have been harrassed, I asume it is becuase most people would never guess I was gay. I served in the army, I graduated from syracuse university, I work as a state park ranger now. I have fought activly for the second amendment for ten years, I train search dogs, I teach hunter education, I can't spell, I could shoot a different gun every day for 2.5 months and still not have shot them all, I go away to some form of training atleast once a year and all of those things are probally more defing parts of my personality than my sexuality. I don't want to use my sexuality as a barging chip with our elected represenitives but if at the same time it gets the RKBA more press I will begrudginly agree.
Much like the disabled I don't want to be a special interest group I want to be treated the same, as that was the priciple our coutry was founded on "all men are created equal". Heck, I even hate the word homophobia as it implies a fear when more often than not it is a dislike.
And to put a different twist on what was said many times above "a friend of the RKBA is a friend of mine (even if they are religious zealot that hates our constituational freedom to be who we are)
Gordon
Member
Well I cant spell and I shoot a different gun everyday of the year and if I was in Vt. I would ask to join the pink pistols too. Would that be OK?
Preacherman
Member
Good definition, Spiffikins - I think that there are many of us (including me!) who "are convinced that [our] beliefs are correct", but do NOT insist that others must conform to them. This is not fundamentalism, IMHO, but realism. We've all come to where we are through our own backgrounds and personal history. I'm convinced that there is an objective Truth that overrides all personal interpretation and choice: and to me, that Truth has a name... but the road to it takes us through many different approaches. May we all arrive at that Truth one day!
Mannlicher, I'm with you in saying that I will never personally believe that a gay lifestyle is right, morally or otherwise: but I've worked with many, many gay and lesbian people, and continue to do so. They know I'm unabashedly hetero (although celibate), and don't judge me for it, just as I don't judge them. When you've held someone in your arms as they die of AIDS, or help them get over a beating they've taken because of their lesbian lifestyle, you find they're human beings, just as you are, and they need your love, support and strength, just as you may well one day need theirs. God loves them at least as much as he loves me, according to my faith, and I'm not going to offer them anything less than that love (in strictly celibate form!!!
).Pax, you said that "there's no way not to be "flamboyantly" whatever-you-are". Sorry, I just can't resist... surely a lesbian couple are "flamgirlantly" what they are???
Gordon
Member
Preacherman: No priest at mass this 8:30 Am , wish you were there!
Wildalaska
member
Bravo Preacher!
Bravo ajacobs!
Bravo ajacobs!
Preacherman
Member
This thread is also worth looking at in the context of this discussion.
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