Strange explanation at the range.

[castile]

I usually go to an outdoor range but there was a woman my wife works with and her husband that wanted to go to the indoor range. When we went into the range there were large brick sized magnets with Russian steel cases attached to with a sign that said no steel cases allowed. I have been to a few indoor ranges and its not the steel case but the Russian or old communist block steel jacket or steel core bullets that are the issue. I asked why they said no steel cases, was it the steel bullets? No they said, its because of all the unburnt powder and gases that could ignite if a steel case hit the floor and made a spark. I have never heard that ever. I did not say anything but how many sparks come out of a gun barrel when fired. A spark would not ignite unburnt powder unless it actually landed on a speck of it. But even then how much unburned powder could there be? I could be wrong but that sounded like someone who know nothing trying to explain something by repeating something stupid they heard without thinking about it. I have heard many times that ventilation is needed for the primers have mercury or lead in some primers and that can be dangerous. I have also heard lead bullets can put lead into the air and that can build up indoors. But I have never heard of a range exploding because a spark ignited "unburned powder. Anyone ever hear of this?

 

[Believer45]

CLICK HERE This one happened while police were shooting at the range where it occurred. I would assume this kind of a fire is a very unusual circumstance.

Most likely the individual you talked to was not the one who instituted the rule. However much sense it does or does not make the guy at the range is tasked with enforcing the rules laid down by the owners.

 

[dartor]

Unburnt powder does indeed accumulate on an indoor range floor. But it doesn't come only from steel cased ammo. I've seen an indoor range being swept and a cigarette dropped on the powder which burned. I'll bet the indoor range sells their brass cases and doesn't want to deal with sorting out the steel cases.

 

[Believer45]

INTERESTING THREAD on this topic.

 

[Believer45]

Unburnt powder does indeed accumulate on an indoor range floor. But it doesn't come only from steel cased ammo. I've seen an indoor range being swept and a cigarette dropped on the powder which burned. I'll bet the indoor range sells their brass cases and doesn't want to deal with sorting out the steel cases.

I think you have a good point on not wanting to deal with the steel cases. Also, brass hitting concrete would not generate any kind of spark. In theory a steel case hitting concrete could spark.

 

[castile]

The thing that makes this just stupid is that any gun will spark. I have seen sparks fall on the ground from a rifle or hand gun. The attendant also said unburden gases can explode. Like the fire ball coming out of a rifle could not ignite something.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Unburnt powder accumulation on range floors is a very real hazard. While working at the Bullseye range in Wichita, Ks Bill V. the owner made it cardinal rule that twice a shift. the lanes were closed for 20 min or so we could walk the lanes with sprayers and then broom wash the lanes down. The shotgun lane was always the worst / most amount to remove. Bill was smart had floor drains to wash out. that was back in the 90's

 

[castile]

Unburnt powder accumulation on range floors is a very real hazard. While working at the Bullseye range in Wichita, Ks Bill V. the owner made it cardinal rule that twice a shift. the lanes were closed for 20 min or so we could walk the lanes with sprayers and then broom wash the lanes down. The shotgun lane was always the worst / most amount to remove. Bill was smart had floor drains to wash out. that was back in the 90's

I used to shoot there when I lived in Andover. It was on Olive st. if I remember right. The only thing they ever told me was no bullets with steel. No steel jacketed or steel core bullets. At least at that time they did not care about steel cases only the bullets. But most if not all steel cased ammo was soviet or communist block ammo and had steel cores, or jackets. If they were in doubt they would put a magnet on the bullet to see if it was attracted to the bullet. They had a 100 yd indoor rifle range. I would take 3 minutes to get a target down range but they had cameras so you did not need a spotting scope. For a city indoor range it was nice.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

I used to shoot there when I lived in Andover. It was on Olive st. if I remember right. The only thing they ever told me was no bullets with steel. No steel jacketed or steel core bullets. At least at that time they did not care about steel cases only the bullets. But most if not all steel cased ammo was soviet or communist block ammo and had steel cores, or jackets. If they were in doubt they would put a magnet on the bullet to see if it was attracted to the bullet. They had a 100 yd indoor rifle range. I would take 3 minutes to get a target down range but they had cameras so you did not need a spotting scope. For a city indoor range it was nice.

YEP!, right next to St. Mary's hospital and WSU right down the road. ....... Well, the reason on the rifle tunnel was a couple of guys didn't get the ammo checked and they Swiss cheesed the plates on the back stop. Bill was PISSED! A lot of money even then to get them replaced. What really sucked was the cascade fluid system Bill had for the rifle back stop. The grills and debris catchers everyone forgot to clean regularly. This left the system nonfunctional most the time and the mesh steel filters would sit and rust in place. Cleaning and repairing it was the worst job there.

 

[epags]

I ran an outdoor range for several years. We didn't allow shotguns so I have no position relative to shotgun powder build up......but.....we allowed black powder pistols and rifles which really throw sparks when fired. The front of the firing line was asphalt which developed cracks. While we swept the area each night to collect the brass that went forward we were unknowingly pushing unburned powder into the cracks.
Regularly a black powder shooter's sparks would ignite the powder in the cracks and create quite a sight until we would extinguish with water. Finally we filled the cracks and resurfaced the area
Post Script: Politics closed the range the next month.

 

[epags]

Unburnt powder does indeed accumulate on an indoor range floor. But it doesn't come only from steel cased ammo. I've seen an indoor range being swept and a cigarette dropped on the powder which burned. I'll bet the indoor range sells their brass cases and doesn't want to deal with sorting out the steel cases.

That problem is easily solved with a magnet.....they even make rolling tools with magnets. Aluminum pistol cases and the combo brass and composite rifle cases are the real PITA.

 

[GBExpat]

... I asked why they said no steel cases, was it the steel bullets? No they said, its because of all the unburnt powder and gases that could ignite if a steel case hit the floor and made a spark. ...

Are you expected to abandon your cases at that indoor range?

My first thought as I read the OP was that they are also in the business of selling fired cases and, so, want only reloadables littering their floor.

 

[jmr40]

While ingiting unburned powder is a possibility I don't see it being any more likely with steel cased ammo. I think the real reason is that the range picks up all brass left behind and sells it for scrap. I occasionally visit an indoor range and they want ONLY brass. No steel, no aluminum. And they don't try to pretend it is for any other reason than for them to sell the brass as scrap.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

While ingiting unburned powder is a possibility I don't see it being any more likely with steel cased ammo. I think the real reason is that the range picks up all brass left behind and sells it for scrap. I occasionally visit an indoor range and they want ONLY brass. No steel, no aluminum. And they don't try to pretend it is for any other reason than for them to sell the brass as scrap.

We had a local public outdoor range that prohibited picking up any brass downrange of the bench, even during a ceasfire to service targets.
Several of the staff were fired a couple years ago for selling off the brass and keeping the proceeds for themseves.

 

[nofendertom]

Most indoor ranges say the steel bullets destroy the backstop. Maybe the magnet isn't smart enough to determine whether it is the bullet or the case that is steel.
The magnet test eliminates arguments by banning anything magnetic.

 

[buck460XVR]

Over the years, I have heard many explanations as to why indoor ranges will not allow steel cased ammo. Many think they know the real reason. Still, it comes down to their house, their rules, they really don't need to give a reason.

 

[AK Hunter]

I would bet they make money from selling the brass cases & they don't make as much selling mixed steel & brass so they don't allow steel that keeps them from having to run a magnet over the brass.
Unburned powder does catch fire & it does happen at outdoor ranges too just not as bad of result.

 

[Speedo66]

Sounds like the range officer mixed up two range problems.

Steel cased ammo usually has coated steel bullets which can spark and possibly start a fire down range among the shot hole paper debris there.

Unburnt powder at the firing line is also a problem. But a spark caused by a falling steel case is fairly unlikely.

One of the Russian ammo companies had a line of steel cased ammo, but with copper/lead bullets. They called it “range friendly”, my local range had no problem with that.

 

[Reloadron]

While I never heard of a steel case hitting the deck and making a spark igniting unburned powder on the deck unburned powder does create a very real hazard. Well maintained ranges make sure unburned powder is removed on a regular sweep down.

I figure it this way. When visiting anywhere it's someone elses house and I am expected to play by their house rules. That includes ranges indoor and outdoor. Now if I happen to disagree with house rules I have the option of going elsewhere. Gee ain't America great? I love this place.

Ron

 

[EMC45]

Are you expected to abandon your cases at that indoor range?

My first thought as I read the OP was that they are also in the business of selling fired cases and, so, want only reloadables littering their floor.

That was my ONLY thought.

 

[P Flados]

I attend a local indoor range on a regular basis.

They have a "no steel case" rule that is posted very prominently in a bunch of places. They let folks know that this is considered "a big deal" and getting caught is likely to get them banned. I do see some steel casings on the floor every once in a while, but it is pretty rare.

I discussed the issue with a pretty level headed employee.

The floor does get covered with unburned powder. There is also residue from shot up targets and target backers that burns pretty good.

They sweep the floor good every day, but they do not shut down shooting during the day to clean it. They did ban shotguns due to the damage / mess that results.

They have had a number of fire events.

Even with their hard line policy, they said that more often than not, they found steel casings on the floor following a lane fire. This is probably more than just coincidence. They admitted they were not sure why. Likely explanations discussed were steel causing sparks when impacting concrete or some guns / ammo having more sparks discharging from the barrel than typical.

Look, if even if it is only some specific types of steel case ammo that seem to cause problems, can you blame them from banning all steel case?

 

[edwardware]

No they said, its because of all the unburnt powder and gases that could ignite if a steel case hit the floor and made a spark.

BS. Pretty high grade too. If the range jig doesn't work out that guy can get a job as some felon's press secretary.

They disallow steel case ammo because it adulterates their feedstock of brass. While there is a fire hazard caused by unburnt powder accumulating, ignition is far more likely to be caused by some dude shooting a  firearm than a steel case hitting the floor. They treat that risk by sweeping regularly.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

BS. Pretty high grade too. If the range jig doesn't work out that guy can get a job as some felon's press secretary.

They disallow steel case ammo because it adulterates their feedstock of brass. While there is a fire hazard caused by unburnt powder accumulating, ignition is far more likely to be caused by some dude shooting a  firearm than a steel case hitting the floor. They treat that risk by sweeping regularly.

Although that begs the question why they don't also ban aluminum cases. Granted, aluminum is valuable too, but it requires hand-sorting to filter. Its not like scrapyards dont take steel as well, and its easy to weed out.

 

[GBExpat]

I would never patronize a range that required me to leave my fired brass.

I have been retrieving my spent centerfire cases for so many decades (even berdan & steel) that my stress-level would peg if I tried to walk away from it, y'know?

 

[castile]

Although that begs the question why they don't also ban aluminum cases. Granted, aluminum is valuable too, but it requires hand-sorting to filter. Its not like scrapyards dont take steel as well, and its easy to weed out.

If I had to guess it would be that not many people use Blazer or aluminum ammo. Although on the magnet brick they had a plastic case with steel base they said was banned.