Strobing flashlight as a defensive weapon?

[the count]

Anybody here have some experience using strobing (or not strobing) flashlights as a non lethal weapon? How many lumens does it take? How long will it blind the opponent? I just ordered, but did not take delivery yet, of a Fenix TK21. Has about 480 lumen, but I did not buy that one specifically for the purpose I am discussing here.

 

[glistam]

I have. And yes they work if you have proper expectations.
First, I'd never label such a thing as a "weapon." It would be like calling a fencing "disengage" a weapon. A strobe is a tactic that buys you a bit of time in the right circumstances. The idea is to distract and compromise a person's nightvision just long enough to do what you need to, like draw your own weapon, attack, or make a break for it if there is a safe destination nearby that you can reach reasonably fast.

There are no lumens that are best, as such a thing is relative to the ambient light. But these days most LED lights have some serious power even running AA batteries. I have several Olight and 4Sevens that seem to be plenty bright.

 

[ForumSurfer]

A strobe is a tactic that buys you a bit of time in the right circumstances. The idea is to distract and compromise a person's nightvision just long enough to do what you need to, like draw your own weapon, attack, or make a break for it if there is a safe destination nearby that you can reach reasonably fast.

Keep in mind that a "bit of time" is just 2 or 3 seconds at best.

I've been on the receiving end while driving. I was a victim of "Hey, what's this button do?!" It was completely dark save the instrument lights, I was completely caught off guard (singing) and I could still see well enough to snatch the flash light from her and continue driving. We're talking 6" to 12" from my eyeball, staring directly at it (What's what do? D'oh!). That was a TLR 1s. I tried the same thing with my even brighter surefire at home later. After that point, I started viewing a flashlight as a means to identify a target and nothing more as you can't guarantee it will do more. It may cause a pause or it may trigger them to rush the light, you just can't know and I won't take the risk.

If you ask me, the most you're going to get is a second or two. Even then, only if you are REALLY close. If you are that close and they have a contact weapon, you're still in trouble.

 

[rcmodel]

I'd disagree a little.

Even the reflected bounceback at close range from my Surefire 180 lumin of the side of my house at night is enough to hurt, and have me seeing nothing but spots for a while.

Atilla the Hun couldn't keep his eyes open and look directly into it at night.
Nor could he see afterward if he tried too.

rc

 

[ForumSurfer]

I'd disagree a little.

Even the reflected bounceback at close range from my Surefire 180 lumin of the side of my house at night is enough to hurt, and have me seeing nothing but spots for a while.

Atilla the Hun couldn't keep his eyes open and look directly into it at night.
Nor could he see afterward if he tried too.

rc

Exactly why I wouldn't depend on it!

It blinds RC, but I could see well enough to drive and remove the flashlight from her hands (and cuss) and it didn't "hurt" my eyes. Maybe my eyes are damaged more, maybe it has to do with my astigmatism...who knows and who cares? The point is, two different people experienced two completely different reactions from the same candle power.

Neither of us have a reason to lie and two vastly different outcomes. Sounds to me that I'll stick with using a flashlight to identify targets and anything else is an unexpected bonus.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I have seen people take a blast of pepper spray in the eyes and continue to fight.

 

[glistam]

I have seen people take a blast of pepper spray in the eyes and continue to fight.

Not to mention bullets to the center mass. Everything has a potential to fail. Never trust safety to a single point of failure. But at the same time there is no need to toss a weapon/tactic aside because it "might not work."

 

[CWL]

I asked some local SWAT Entry Team officers that I get to train with on occasion about strobe lights. Their general comment is that it does work, but it can confuse and distract everyone, not just your intended recipient.

Of course SWAT work in teams, while you may be alone. But if you have a family or group of people that you are with, you may cause as much confusion to yourselves as any BGs.

Also, I agree that this is not a weapon. It is a "gadget". If you want to shine the eyes of BGs, any good high-lumen light will work.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Someone took my picture with a bright flash in dim light a while back. I could not see anything for several seconds. I remember thinking at the time "I am glad that I am not in a gun fight right now." I was not harmed or made uncomfortable in any way, I just could not see for a time as my night vision was temporarily destroyed. That is about the extent of what bright lights do. The trick is to use it in a quick flash and then turn it off.

 

[hogshead]

Maybe this one.

 

[Four Knives]

2-3 Seconds - max.

JUST did this a few weeks ago on a moonless night in an Advanced Low Light/No Light Handgun course.

Instructor had a 700 lumen Malkoff LED and blasted us from 3 yards.

None of us were without vision/focus for more than 3 seconds, and nobody felt in the least bit 'incapacitated'.

Was a learning experience for me, as I've seen spots when someone took my picture or shone a spotlight at me, but never thought to measure the amount of time it affected me.


It can be of use, but that use is in MOVING off your current position to get behind cover or other position of advantage.

 

[hso]

defensive weapon

Tool? Yes

Weapon? No

As pointed out they serve to disorient and to temporarily blind if light levels are low enough, but they aren't a weapon capable of stopping an attack just with the light.

 

[conw]

I show people in my training group how to use a pikal style jab with a flashlight. The two cell pocket lights are great for this.

To pull it off practice with others is required. You need good timing. I think jawline or temple area make ideal targets. southnarc's DVD reverse edge methods two has the concept and covers it well. I just plug in a light in place of a knife.

The strobe part is a great prefight tool at conversational distance. 1 second of disorientation is an eternity for someone who knows how to take advantage of it by arcing and throwing that vicious reverse grip flashlight jab.

The idea is train to use the light as a weapon without the strobe. If you are in a dim or low light situation then the strobe is a nice bonus.

You can also walk with the light in your hand in a place like a dark parking lot. If you have good strategies for verbally managing unknowns the light can work synergistically there too.

I see all these as prefight preemption based tactics. I'm not advocating flash and smash if you are already being physically attacked and that far behind the curve.

Some members may disagree with preemption. Suffice to say I don't but it is a tricky strategy so think this through before you are put in that situation.

 

[Walking Dead]

I carry my Surefire Executive Defender daily and keep my Surefire Devestator by the bed. Neither strobe but both will both make you hurt.

 

[rm3482]

A tactical flashlight is a great tool to help you get off the X!

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I believe the best use is in making yourself a difficult target and somewhat masking your movement ! At moderate distance(25-50 yards) it is very effective and makes it difficult for someone to target you ! Kevin

 

[the count]

Quick Fenix TK21 impressions

In the meantime I received the TK21. At 480 lumens max this is a powerhouse. Nicely machined aluminum, all the features you will ever need and takes rechargeable 18650 lithium batteries as well as CR123s. The lowest setting is actually fine if you just want to be able to discern things in a room/hall if you have a power outage. At this setting you get a whopping 220 hours of use. Pretty amazing, this alone makes it an worthy addition to any survival gear. This equates to almost 30 days of use @ 8 hours a day. The brightest setting is simply blinding - very very bright, which can also be strobed. Size wise this flashlight is great also, fits in any pocket. Highly recommended if you don't mind the price.

 

[Bikewer]

Twice in my career I've "stopped" suspects by simply putting the old Mag-light in their eyes. In both cases the individual was attemptlng to flee other officers and running towards me...

I wouldn't rely on a light to stop a determined (and armed...) attack, but it will likely buy you a couple of seconds.

As to people "continuing to fight" when pepper-sprayed... This is of concern to us police, who are generally tasked with arresting the individual. Anyone can keep struggling even if they can't see.
However, the civilian usually just wants to depart the scene, and the BG is going to have a hard time following you effectively....

 

[Joe_m107]

I was deployed to Iraq a couple years ago. I carried my Surefire M6 (500 lumens) while working on the flight line at night. It worked very well has a spotlight for moving aircraft at night.

Sometime, on a night with no ambient light, no moon, etc. we would go out on the flight line and play a game I called "touch Joe". It basically consisted of me with my Surefire blinding my opponent and evading them, while their goal was simply to touch me. I could often keep them from finding me for minutes at a time. I would hit them in the eyes with the light, then sidestep and slink away while they flail around trying to find me. After 5 seconds or so they would be able to see good enough to see me and charge, in which I would blind them again and duck and sidestep.
Good fun, and yes, we were very bored sometimes.

I usually carry my Surefire LX2 everyday. 15 lumens on low and 200 on high. Very nice light. Push the tailcap a little for low power, push it harder for high. Very easy to use. Doubles for a self defense light, and a work light when working on helicopters.