Strongest action, Arisaka???
- Thread starter Gabe
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Jim Watson
Member
Combination of good mechanical design and good materials.
P.O. Ackley didn't just think so, he shot assorted milsurp to destruction. The 6.5 Arisaka was strongest. Try to find his books and read the details.
Don't think that makes it best. It has a lot of oddites that us Occidentals don't care for. A high number Springfield, US Enfield, or '98 Mauser will shoot anything I care to fire off the shoulder and do it in better style.
P.O. Ackley didn't just think so, he shot assorted milsurp to destruction. The 6.5 Arisaka was strongest. Try to find his books and read the details.
Don't think that makes it best. It has a lot of oddites that us Occidentals don't care for. A high number Springfield, US Enfield, or '98 Mauser will shoot anything I care to fire off the shoulder and do it in better style.
Mike Irwin has heard this story, too. Supposedly somebody once got a surplus 6.5 arisaka, and rechambered it for the .30-06. Note I said rechambered. I didn't say rebored, or rebarreled.
Yes, he was shooting .30-06's through a .264 barrel Supposedly killed a couple deer with it, then went to his smith to complain about the brutal recoil!!!!!!!
The gun wound up at the staff of the American Rifleman, who test fired it with a string on the trigger. It held.
Gabe, there is one at www.cccfirearms.com, which isn't too far from you. It has been sporterized with a full length stock. The saleman termed it his "Japlicher"
The Japanese have been great steel makers for centuries, and that base of expertise helped fuel their rise as a power in the early 1900's - leading to their arrogance and eventual downfall.
Yes, he was shooting .30-06's through a .264 barrel
Supposedly killed a couple deer with it, then went to his smith to complain about the brutal recoil!!!!!!!The gun wound up at the staff of the American Rifleman, who test fired it with a string on the trigger. It held.
Gabe, there is one at www.cccfirearms.com, which isn't too far from you. It has been sporterized with a full length stock. The saleman termed it his "Japlicher"
The Japanese have been great steel makers for centuries, and that base of expertise helped fuel their rise as a power in the early 1900's - leading to their arrogance and eventual downfall.
Mike Irwin
Member
"Mike Irwin has heard this story, too."
I've not just heard the story, Tex.
I've seen the bullets, which are in American Rifleman's internal reference collection. I can't remember for sure, but the rifle may be, too.
The guy apparently brought it into the old building down in DC back in the 1950s or 1960s to see the technical staff and find out why the recoil was so horrendous.
That's when they found out that it had been rechambered, but not rebarreled, for .30-06.
The guy had been shooting surplus military 150-gr. ball through it. The bullets look like what you'd expect to find in a 6.5 caliber round from the turn of the last century, sort of round nosed and LONG.
I've not just heard the story, Tex.
I've seen the bullets, which are in American Rifleman's internal reference collection. I can't remember for sure, but the rifle may be, too.
The guy apparently brought it into the old building down in DC back in the 1950s or 1960s to see the technical staff and find out why the recoil was so horrendous.
That's when they found out that it had been rechambered, but not rebarreled, for .30-06.
The guy had been shooting surplus military 150-gr. ball through it. The bullets look like what you'd expect to find in a 6.5 caliber round from the turn of the last century, sort of round nosed and LONG.
Mike Irwin
Member
Here's a quote from Julian Hatcher on the 6.5 Arisaka...
"A nearly similar condition [well supported case head and enclosure of the cartridge] is true of the Japanese Model 38 (1905) 6.5mm Arisaka rifle. It uses a semi-rim cartridge, which has only a very slight extractor groove, and the cartridge head is thus quite strong. As the cartridge walls are also particularly well supported near the head, the action of this rifle is harder to wreck than those of the Springfield, Enfield, or Mauser, all of which use the truly rimless cartrdige with its weaker head construction."
"A nearly similar condition [well supported case head and enclosure of the cartridge] is true of the Japanese Model 38 (1905) 6.5mm Arisaka rifle. It uses a semi-rim cartridge, which has only a very slight extractor groove, and the cartridge head is thus quite strong. As the cartridge walls are also particularly well supported near the head, the action of this rifle is harder to wreck than those of the Springfield, Enfield, or Mauser, all of which use the truly rimless cartrdige with its weaker head construction."
Just happened to read about it last night. Its in "Hatcher's Notebook" first printed in 1946 with additional editions later. The Arisaka was loaded up to 120,000 psi at which time the testing was stopped. All other military bolt actions started to have blown extractors at around 70,000 psi and started shedding locking lugs at around 90,000 psi. Some of the boly actions tested were the 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, and the German 98 Mauser. He sites a story where kids were loading and firing .35 Remingtons in an Arisaka chambered for 30/06. They used a mallet to force the bolt closed, they fired 3 rounds before the rifle failed. No one was killed.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
So what this says is that it ain't the steel, it's the enclosing of the case-head that makes the Arisaka less prone to "dissolution".
Which might be why Remington came up with push-feed in the 721.
, Art
Which might be why Remington came up with push-feed in the 721.
, ArtJim Watson
Member
Well, you have to have at least decent steel to make a good design work, but the advantage of good design is that you don't have to have expensive or strategic materials. Hatcher had some analyzed and described them as "ordinary carbon steel, similar to SAE 1085." Nothing wrong with that, Ackley had a report from hardness testing of an Arisaka which said "...this receiver was not only carefully, but even elaborately heat treated. To make such heat treatment and results possible the materials must be good enough."
The flip side of that is the guns of Philip Lichtmann, whose only design that made it to production is the Semmerling LM4. He was very fond of small autos and found that for small parts to hold up to use, they had to be made of the very best steels, with just the right heat treatment. Not something you want to get into for quantity production.
The flip side of that is the guns of Philip Lichtmann, whose only design that made it to production is the Semmerling LM4. He was very fond of small autos and found that for small parts to hold up to use, they had to be made of the very best steels, with just the right heat treatment. Not something you want to get into for quantity production.
Mike Irwin
Member
"This steel was used for their military economy."
Which is one of the big reasons why scrap steel shipments were also stopped to Japan in 1940 or 1941. Not just oil.
Which is one of the big reasons why scrap steel shipments were also stopped to Japan in 1940 or 1941. Not just oil.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I luv thread drift! So I'll help.
My grandparents took me along on a trip to Galveston, back when I wuz really little. I still remember going on board a Japanese freighter which was loading scrap steel by use of a huge electro-magnet hanging from the boom.
After we'd won a few naval battles in the Pacific, the saying was, "The Japanese built a navy from U.S. scrap, and the U.S. made scrap out of the Japanese navy."
, Art
So I'll help.My grandparents took me along on a trip to Galveston, back when I wuz really little. I still remember going on board a Japanese freighter which was loading scrap steel by use of a huge electro-magnet hanging from the boom.
After we'd won a few naval battles in the Pacific, the saying was, "The Japanese built a navy from U.S. scrap, and the U.S. made scrap out of the Japanese navy."
, ArtArisaka action strength...
I've got P.O. Ackley's books. I'll have to re-read the section where he tested the Arisaka to failure. If I remember right, he stopped testing with the proof loads when the intentionally plugged barrel ended up stripping it's threads and departing the forward receiver ring. The action was still in good condition.
I've got P.O. Ackley's books. I'll have to re-read the section where he tested the Arisaka to failure. If I remember right, he stopped testing with the proof loads when the intentionally plugged barrel ended up stripping it's threads and departing the forward receiver ring. The action was still in good condition.
Archie
Member
Arisaka actions....
An old, sadly departed friend decided to check out Ackley's comments on the Arisaka action.
He enlisted another old friend (still alive and verifies the story.)
They bought an Arisaka from the "Any rifle you want for $10" barrel at a local gunshop. Took it out to an open field and test fired it tied to a tire.
They pulled a bullet and jammed it in the barrel. Bang. No problem.
They filled the barrel with dirt. Bang. No problem.
Several other ideas, (assisted with discrete doses of whiskey), culumnated in jamming a bullet in the end of the bore, filling the barrel with dynamite stuffings and cranking that off.
They blew the barrel out of the action. But didn't break anything. As I recall the story, they screwed the barrel back on.
Great days.
Yes, this is a sea story, but I know the principals and have every reason to believe them.
An old, sadly departed friend decided to check out Ackley's comments on the Arisaka action.
He enlisted another old friend (still alive and verifies the story.)
They bought an Arisaka from the "Any rifle you want for $10" barrel at a local gunshop. Took it out to an open field and test fired it tied to a tire.
They pulled a bullet and jammed it in the barrel. Bang. No problem.
They filled the barrel with dirt. Bang. No problem.
Several other ideas, (assisted with discrete doses of whiskey), culumnated in jamming a bullet in the end of the bore, filling the barrel with dynamite stuffings and cranking that off.
They blew the barrel out of the action. But didn't break anything. As I recall the story, they screwed the barrel back on.
Great days.
Yes, this is a sea story, but I know the principals and have every reason to believe them.
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