Stumbled upon another cowboy gun...

[TheVirginian]

I finally got into this local shop that seems to be closed around 250 days outta the year. They had quite a collection of Colt SAA revolvers. Uber expensive stuff that you'd love to find at a reasonable price but probably never will. Then they also had a couple of what seemed to be a bit overpriced SAA guns probably Gen 2 stuff, and finally an affordable Colt!

I know, affordable and Colt are mutually exclusive, right? Well this wasn't cheap and it has only gone up in value since it was discontinued, even though it wasn't as popular as Colt had hoped. You don't change a good recipe, right? Well now I know what a 4th Gen Colt SAA is. It's the first one that I have seen but it was nice enough to give it a new home. It's called the Colt Cowboy. The difference is in the hammer and slightly in the action. The Colt Cowboy has a transfer bar system which is similar to the Ruger New Vaquero. It's exactly the same size and weight as the Single Action Army and the whole action feels very similar as well. In fact, I actually thought it was a Gen 3 SAA when I first saw it. It wasn't until I saw the flat hammer face and transfer bar that I knew it was a bit different. The lower price made me curious as the dealer is no dumby when it comes to these as he specializes in antique and rare firearms. The Whole gun reeks of Colt even though it bears some resemblence to a New Vaquero in terms of the hammer. It still feels a lot more like an older Colt action though. The old SAA style revolvers have a lot of clicks as you cock the hammer (4 to be exact) but they are barely felt, very smooth and fast. This Colt Cowboy version has but 3 clicks and otherwise feels as smooth as any other Colt. The New Vaquero has only two clicks and feels a little different. For those that are not sure what function the transfer bar serves, the advantage to the transfer bar system is that you can load all six chambers without fear of an accidental discharge if the gun is dropped or the hammer is struck in any way.
-Bill

 

[calaverasslim]

I am confused. I have only owned Colts for 45 years and really never heard the term "4th Gen." until they changed the cylinder bushing back to a removable bushing about 4 or 5 years ago. Colt Cowboys are definitely not 4th gen Colts

The Colt Cowboy came out about 10 or 12 years ago as a lower price SAA and I have heard they were made with imported parts from Uberti. I am not sure that's fact.

Colt Cowboys have gone up in value and are good shooters but do not have the collector value a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen Colt have.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The Colt Cowboy came out about 10 or 12 years ago as a lower price SAA and I have heard they were made with imported parts from Uberti. I am not sure that's fact.

The only Colt revolvers that have Uberti parts are the 2nd and 3rd gen cap and ball revolvers. The cartridge guns are made in the USA.

 

[TheVirginian]

Hi Slim,
I can call you Slim, can't I?! I heard the term 4th Gen used a few times and it was typically rebutted pretty quickly by old time Colt users. I looked at the current SAA and it is essentially the same as the 3rd Gen with perhaps only minor tolerance differences. The bushing change may not be the only tweak and I agree that it isn't enough to call it a 4th Gen gun. If anything, newer tooling would allow better quality guns to be made, all else being equal (and it never is)...

I'll also agree that if we are talking only the specific model SAA, that there has only been three generations. You can easily separate the Cowboy model from the SAA model and end that debate. However, if you consider that the Cowboy is actually the very same gun other than being equipped with a newly designed action that allows a sixth round to be safely chambered, while retaining most all of the same smooth action as the original (if you wanna call 3rd Gen original ), then you'd have to consider that as the 4th gen Colt SA! Now that your blood pressure is really up, I'll just say that I actually used the term just to get a kick out of discussing it. I could really care less what they call it, I just wanna put the hammer down on it. I might even move back in time to a 3rd at some point, who knows. I have a very accurate copy of a 1st gen on the way already, so I am not sure about that. I sort of like the idea of the transfer bars safety while still not resorting to a Ruger feel. It's totally a Colt.

The Colt Cowboy was made in Hartford CT. Colt sued AWA a while back and while the Cowboy was in production, they had to testify as to why they felt the AWA Peacekeeper (the other SAA gun that I have on order) infringed their on the trade dress of the SAA revolver. Basically, AWA had to remove their pony and eagle from the spots that Colt had them on the grips. AWA simply used another grip. Anyway, while trying to get as much damage done as possible to all parts of the AWA clone, Colt had to describe their Colt Cowboy process in detail, so it's a matter of public record. They said that the frame, trigger guard, hammer, and ejector were cast in Canada and then delivered to CT. The rest of the gun (basically the barrel, cylinder, and spring) were made in CT and assembly was done along side of the more traditional SAA model.

Colt did make the parts on the Cowboy a tiny bit larger or smaller in places to foil those who would buy it to restore original Colt SAA revolvers or to make clones and pass them off as Colts. The frame and cylinder are only .02" larger on the Cowboy, while the ejector mechanism is another tiny fraction shorter. They also use the fixed bushing in the cylinder. Early models got a bit of a bad rap initially as they were, well different, and upset some purists, and they had a little more work to do on the fit and finish. Once production was in full swing, Colt used a better looking case hardened coloring process on the frame rather than all blueing, and the grips and frame fitting was better as well. mine looks and handles just like a Colt SAA. Even though the sizes are a touch off here and there, it is so close that the weight is actually the same. I'd also say that it'll fit any Colt SAA holster and only the tightest fitting holsters would require any work to soften the leather. It isn't until you pull the hammer back and notice the absence of the firing pin spur, that you even realize it's anything but a SAA. They also removed the eagle from the grip, leaving only the rampant colt, and of course it says Colt Cowboy on the side of the barrel. It looks like the 4th Gen to me!
-Bill

 

[Harve Curry]

Maybe you already know this. In a nut shell:
The 1st generation Colt SAA, P models, were from 1873 till WII when production ceased for that war effort. Then after the war production picked up again on the same old tooling. These are 2nd gen.
About 1974 things were wearing out and more modern methods were available. The frames were then cast before they were machined. This changed some of the contours. These are the 3rd gen we have now. The cyl bushing was deleted, but nowback, but that doesn't change the SAA to a 4th gen. There are no 4th gen P models. That will take a completley new change in manufacturing or some other major interuption.

Colt Cowboy is a entirely different revolver, not a P model Colt.

 

[TheVirginian]

Hi Harve,
Yeah and that's exactly how they get away with it. Not making a "4th Gen" SAA to piss off the loyal purists. They just change the model prefix and aiola, different critter.

My point (other than to create a bit of a stir) was that the same base gun design was modified to allow safe carry of all chambers loaded. That is a significant change and did require a few different parts, hence the Gen 4 comment. Not only could they not get away with making some changes to the old design on the P series, they couldn't even make changes and call it something else (CB series) without causing outrage in the new west! So they stopped production of the Cowboy model entirely. That's fine with me, it just increases the value of mine.

Have a look at the parts diagrams and you'll see just how remarkably similar the guns are. The Cowboy actually has 2 fewer total parts on the list! Those are washers and I am not certain but from the list it appears the Cowboy used thread locker rather than washers. They may have washers as well and they are just omitted from the diagram for some reason but that seems unlikely. The only operational differences other than the very slight dimensional changes that I mentioned earlier is the transfer bar on the Cowboy. It seats on the trigger which has a spur added to it on the Cowboy model, where the SAA has none. The obvious difference is then the firing pin arrangement and it is a simple trade-off. The pin is removed from the hammer and added to the frame on the Cowboy. This allows the transfer bar to rest between the firing pin and hammer. That's a good thing, whether it's traditional or not. The beauty of it is that it really doesn't change the way the gun feels or behaves when fired. It does not feel like a Ruger, rather it feels like a Colt! Different trigger pulls may require different polishing jobs due to the slight changes in how the hammer mates to the sear and how the transfer bar slides in the frame, but that's nothing that a good gunsmith cannot overcome. You'll also notice the cylinder/base pin bushing is traded for the cylinder/base pin spacer. No functional difference or parts count difference there, just a different style bushing.
-Bill

 

[Harve Curry]

How good does it shoot??
My Colt SAA 3rd gen made in 2005 will shoot all six into 8 1/2" at 100 yards from a rest with a two hand hold.

 

[TheVirginian]

Dunno... it's too new. I don't think its ever been fired and it was claimed to be NIB. I haven't the time right now and will probably have my AWA by the time that I get time to go out with it.

I have read a couple of reviews and they state anywhere from 1" at 15 yards to 2 1/2" at 25 yards. I may have read 3 1/2" at 50 yards, but it's a bit blurry at this point and that's an unusual range for a handgun. It was Dick Metcalf that reported 2 1/4" groups to be consistant at 50'. He also supports my observation of the guns "feel" and action with this statement:

"The Cowboy Is A “Real” Shooter.
Firing the Cowboy side by side with a “real” SAA quickly demonstrated that all the “flavor” of the original remains intact. Not one person out of the half-dozen shooters who test fired the review sample could tell any difference."

I generally shoot at about 25 yards/50 feet myself. I don't use a bench rest for pistols and haven't used one in years for a rifle. Nothing wrong with it for measuring accuracy, it's just not practical where I am and not my cup of tea. I can't imagine shooting at anything beyond 50 yds with a handgun. That's what my Winchester is for.

John Taffin wrote:

"How does the Colt Cowboy shoot? The answer to that question is very well indeed. Using my standard .45 Colt load for cowboy-- a 255 gr. RNFP from Oregon Trail over 8.0 grs. of Unique-- gave a muzzle velocity of 854 fps. This load pretty much duplicates the original blackpowder loading, with groups at a cowboy shooting distance of 50 feet resulting in five of six holes touching and measuring .875". Outstanding accuracy to say the least.

Black Hills Cowboy loads-- the 250 gr. .45 Colt and the 230 gr. .45 Schofield-- did 730 fps and 1 3/8", and 736 fps and 1 5/8" respectively."

I'll get to shoot one of these new SAA guns in a week or two. I have some of the .22 LR chamber inserts on order as well, so I'll be able to report back how they fare through a .45 dia hole...
-Bill

 

[Virginian]

A Colt Model P, or a very good clone, is a unique experience. In the dark you cannot tell a lot of them apart. I am not debating the relative merits of all the various examples, only applauding the experience itself of shooting a Model P.
I'm sorry, but to me, no transfer bar action is really a clone. I actually like the Rugers just as well in their own right, and for different reasons, but no way are they clones of the venerable Colt SAA.

 

[TheVirginian]

Hi Virginian,
You're right. I'm not trying to say the Colt Cowboy is a clone. It isn't; it's a modern evolution of the Colt SAA revolver. That's why I dubbed it the Gen 4 and that's why it is so controversial. It takes the venerable Colt SAA and adds a new feature. That's heresy to some and a nice upgrade to others.

To be a clone, it'd have to be the same or as near it as possible. No reason for Colt to make clones...
-Bill