Stupid Unenforceable Gun Laws

[The Rabbi]

I have been noticing more and more that there are some gun laws out there, especially pertaining to what you can and cannot do to them, that are simply unenforceable.
For example, I was at my dealer yesterday and we began to talk about this. He tells me that any SKS imported before a certain date can have a detachable magazine but after that date not (I am being approximate here. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, or right for that matter). He asked the BATF how he could know whether the SKS was legal or not. They told him there was no way to know. The serial numbers are often duplicates and there are no reliable records for guidance.
Another one: if you want to convert your Norinco Mak 90 back to the pistol grip you can do it but must maintain X number of American made parts. Now how can anyone enforce that? How does an American made part look different from a Korean made part?
Even such big no nos as a shotgun barrel less than 18". My dealer tells me that unless it is just obvious law enforcement will not act on this because largely they do not know how to measure the barrel.
I am sure there are plenty of others. More, even if they did enforce any of this, how many people has anyone heard of actually getting prosecuted?

 

[TallPine]

More, even if they did enforce any of this, how many people has anyone heard of actually getting prosecuted?

Well, there was Randy Weaver ...

 

[whm1974]

Even such big no nos as a shotgun barrel less than 18". My dealer tells me that unless it is just obvious law enforcement will not act on this because largely they do not know how to measure the barrel.
I am sure there are plenty of others. More, even if they did enforce any of this, how many people has anyone heard of actually getting prosecuted?

Your dealer may be right about shotgun barrels being an inch(or less) too short. Most cops probley wont notice by just looking at it.

Well, there was Randy Weaver ...

He was setup. The agents had him cut 1/4 of an inch below the legal limit.

-Bill

 

[model 649]

Very interesting, Rabbi,
I used to think these obscure rules were written as "traps" so that in the event one did attract the attention of the law and they really had nothing, they could at least "fish out" something to charge someone with. Lately I believe they are mostly the product of rule makers with waayyy too much time on their hands. There over twenty thousand gun laws on the books in this country and not one can be shown to have "saved lives" anywhere.
Josh

 

[Third_Rail]

I talked at length with my anti-gun sister about laws regarding barrel length and overall length... she said, basically,

"But.. you can buy a pistol. Why are there laws against shorter rifles or shotguns? You can buy a pistol! That doesn't even make sense...."

When even a hardcore anti-gunner gets it, you know there's a biiiiig problem with the law.

 

[Ivy Mike]

One of my favorites is a law right here in NV.

North Las Vegas code states
9.32.080 Deadly weapon prohibited in vehicle--Exceptions.
It is unlawful for any person to have in his possession in any automobile, truck, motorcycle, or any other type of vehicle any dangerous or deadly weapon, but this restriction shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment carried in good faith for uses of honest work, trade or business, or for the purpose of legitimate sport or recreation.

Notice the lack of exception for self-defense that is guaranteed us by the constitution of our state.


Nevada Constitution Article I Sec. 11.
Right to Keep and Bear Arms; Civil Power Supreme.
Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms
for security and defense, for lawful hunting and
recreational use and for other lawful purposes.


-edit- For those in the know, the NLV law was allowed to stand because it was grandfathered in. A new law prevents a county/city/township from creating tighter gun laws than the state other than safe-discharge laws.

However, the NLV law would appear to be unconstitutional without such an exception. Any thoughts?

 

[thorn726]

I used to think these obscure rules were written as "traps" so that in the event one did attract the attention of the law and they really had nothing, they could at least "fish out" something to charge someone with. Lately I believe they are mostly the product of rule makers with waayyy too much time on their hands.

i go with both of those depending on the day.

why else would we so often hear of police saying "if i really weant ot , i cna stop any car as all cars have something wrong"

ALSO- another factor, sheer stupidity and short sightedness on part of lawmakers=

like the ballistics printing. if you hear it real fast and dont think about it at all, it sounds like it might work.

these lawmaking jerks are $250 per hour types. they don't really listen.
so they hear the idea, sounds good, they split. they don't take the extra 5 seconds to think it thru and see oh yeah this could be gotten around in two seconds and is a worthless law.

anyone out there kinda broke EVER try and Talk to a RICH guy?
they are too important to really hear you.

 

[Michigander]

I'm not sure of the details, but there is some federal law, IIRC, that requires markings on products imported to the US which indicate the country from which the products came.

Most items have a sticker. But I believe some items, like maybe metal parts for cars, require that the information be stamped into the surface.

As for firearm parts, if the parts were salvaged from a complete firearm, then I suppose the parts may not have the markings. But if the parts themselves were imported, then maybe they would.

 

[Molon Labe]

I ignore any and all gun laws...

 

[Kamicosmos]

I ignore any and all gun laws...

Uh...

So, for example, could you explain how you get around NICS when purchasing a firearm?

 

[saltydog]

Personally, I would be ticked off if the Govt forced me to cut my 20" AR15 barrel down to 10". I'm not taking any % loss on bullet velocity from my firearms!

 

[Parallax]

Are there any gun laws that aren't stupid & unenforceable?

 

[Third_Rail]

That one, with the.. thing... and the guy?

Oh, wait, no, that's stupid too. My bad.

 

[whm1974]

I'm not sure of the details, but there is some federal law, IIRC, that requires markings on products imported to the US which indicate the country from which the products came.

Most of the parts for guns would be small enough that noone would put markings on them. But the container the parts came in would have the country of orgin on it. Throw away the box...

-Bill

 

[Selfdfenz]

"I used to think these obscure rules were written as "traps" so that in the event one did attract the attention of the law and they really had nothing, they could at least "fish out" something to charge someone with. "

That's it exactly.

Let's say you live in a rural area and on the way down your drive way one morning you just happen to notice some jacka-- has tossed an empty beer can in your yard.

You hop out, grad it and plan to throw it in the big trash can that resides at the gate of the plant you work at.

Half way to town the police are road blocking to ck for expired tags etc.

Officer sees the can over there in the passenger side floor board.

After that, it's all down hill. They seach you car, you're late for work, get a ticket etc. The points on you DL come later along with the higher insurance.

Bottom line, even though you could do DNA on the can and prove you were excluded as the person that had his or her mounth on the thing it would be no protection for violating the open container law.

I'm not sure you can be honest enough to keep from breaking some kind of law these days no matter how hard you try. Our various tiers of government have passed a sufficient number of laws that by now we're all criminals of one form or another.

 

[El Tejon]

Know of people that are prosecuted for firearms violation? Well, I know a few.

 

[shermacman]

You people don't know your Constitution of the United States of America! It spells out in perfect detail the barrel length of Norinco shotguns and the detachable magazines of SKS imports. It addresses welded compensators, fore end pistol grips, magazine capacities, it even addresses bayonet lugs.

All of that information is clearly written in the Second Amendment, right between: "A well-regulated Militia..." and "...shall not be infringed."

 

[answerguy]

A future stupid unenforceable law will be safe storage laws. The ones that require gun owners to own safes and keep our guns locked in them when not in use. Unless they also change the law about police having to have a reason to enter your house 'safe storage' laws are stupid and unenforceable.

 

[railroader]

Storage laws will be enforced when unauthorized people like kids get a hold of a gun and the owner will be held responsible for not securing their firearms. Like when a kid gets caught at school with dads handgun. Mark

 

[Ky Larry]

Why should our political whores be expected to show reason and common sense on gun laws when we don't demand accountability from them on any other issue?

 

[AF_INT1N0]

Uh...

So, for example, could you explain how you get around NICS when purchasing a firearm?

There several ways to get around NICS.

Fake ID for one. RealFAKE I.D. especially.

Strawman sale
Or If you want stay off the map all together you could purchace a close to new with a....

Person to Person sale.

Maybe the guy down the street selling crack also sells guns on the side(sometimes it's good to diversify)

Pay an illegal $50 dollars to carry an AK with "Da switch" with him while he goes with his 1000 buddies a day across the border of Mexico and Arizona.

I'm positive Im missing quite a few.

Gun laws are as pointless or moreso than prohibition.

 

[DMF]

Gun laws do get enforced. Like it or not, they do. Just because every single person that breaks one doesn't get caught and prosecuted, does not in and of itself make them stupid, or "uneforceable."

Not every murderer, rapist, drug smuggler, child porn trafficker, welfare cheat, pedophile, ID thief, tax cheat, etc, etc, gets caught and prosecuted either. Doesn't mean that because many get away with it, that the law is unenforceable. It's ridiculous to tie the merits of a law to a particular level of enforcement.

So you may think the NFA restrictions on short-barrelled shotguns is silly, but the fact that some people will get away with violating the law does not mean it is completely "unenforceable." People do get prosecuted for illegally manufacturing/possessing/transferring short-barrelled shotguns. Some may get away with it, but that doesn't mean the law is unenforceable. Same goes for the other gun laws, whether it's fed, state, or local.

The "unenforceable" argument is a weak way of attacking gun laws. You could make the same arguments about other prohibitions too. I doubt anyone here wants to make the argument that it's impossible to catch every kiddie porn trafficker, so the laws against kiddie porn are stupid, unenforceable, and should not exist. Just like other prohibitions not every violator of the child porn laws will get caught, but it's a good thing the law is there so that when they do they can be punished.

Better to argue the merits, or lack thereof, of the law itself, rather than the level of enforcement.

 

[svtruth]

Short shotgun

I'm new to this but i seem to remember seeing a regulsr ole advert for a revolver that accepts .45 and .410 shot shells.

 

[CleverNickname]

I'm new to this but i seem to remember seeing a regulsr ole advert for a revolver that accepts .45 and .410 shot shells.

That's the Thunder 5. It's still classified as a handgun because it has a rifled barrel. If it had a smooth barrel it'd be an AOW.

 

[Gray Peterson]

An FYI: The North Las Vegas ordinance is not enforcable against you if you have a Nevada Concealed Firearms Permit.