Sub-gauge sporting clays?

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Hawk

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I have been looking at Browning's site and notice a "Cynergy Classic Sporting" in 20, 28 and .410.

My range has neither sporting clays nor 5 stand so I'm ignorant of how those work - is there such a thing as 20 gauge sporting clays or 5 stand?

Or is the thing more suited to something else?
Skeet maybe? Barrels seem a touch long (28 is the shortest listed) but I'm ignorant on skeet as well.
 
The most common subgauge competition I know of is sub-gauge skeet, in which you shoot with all four gauges (12, 20, 28, .410) in one competition.

The people that I know who do this either use sub-gauge barrel inserts or sub-gauge barrels, they do not switch entire guns.
 
These were not shown as available with multi-barrel sets.

They appear to simply be sub-gauge shotguns configured as a sporting clays product. It's not immediately obvious to me what market they're trying to appeal to.

We have some that shoot skeet strictly with 20 just because they prefer it, but the less effective recoil pad on this model would seem to run contrary to that idea.

I'm just wondering what was going through the Browning marketing guy's head when this thing was proposed for production.
 
Oh... I see some of the confusion now, I think.

Browning uses "sporting" to refer to guns with competition features that are not trap guns.

They have "field" guns, which have shorter barrels (26-28"), and "sporting" guns that have longish barrels (28-32") and porting (and optionally adjustable comb), and trap guns that have long barrels, porting, and the rib that makes them shoot high (and also optionally adjustable comb).

The "sporting" guns Browning sells are basically just competition-style guns rather than hunting-style guns, they're not targeted specifically at sporting clays.

You'll find people who shoot any of the clay games with lighter gauges for various reasons, and I guess those people are their targets.
 
There are people that shoot the smaller gauges to make it harder (skeet and trap are both really easy with a 12ga once you have a good bit of experience) and there are people that shoot them because they don't like recoil.
 
I don't believe that I agree.

My experience with Browning Citoris is not in the rib angle. There may be differences, but I don't see it, with the exception of some being raised more than others.

I see the biggest difference in the "drop a comb verses the the drop at heal". The field guns have a 7/8" difference in drop. The Sporting guns have a 5/16" drop. The Trap guns have a 1/4" inch difference in drop. The skeet guns are parallels.

There are also differences in the length of pull. I truly don't understand this one. I've always purchased a gun an immediately lengthened the length of pull. All guns, especially the older ones are to short for me.

I don't know the Cynergy line.
 
Lots of sporting clays tournaments have additional matches for sub-gauge guns. Usually they're 50 targets and are shot the day before the main event. Of course, you can shoot anything you want in the main event.
 
Sub-gauge sporting clays is a joy unto itself. Within 40 yards I'm just as effective with my 28 gauge as my 12. Sometimes even further. :)
 
They have "field" guns, which have shorter barrels (26-28"), and "sporting" guns that have longish barrels (28-32") and porting (and optionally adjustable comb), and trap guns that have long barrels, porting, and the rib that makes them shoot high (and also optionally adjustable comb).

The bummer is, Browning doesn't currently sell a barrel over 28" without their assinine porting.
 
A few of the larger NSCA sporting clays tournaments (such as the State Tournaments and a few others held annually) will have what they call "sub-gauge" events. These events are limited to 20, 28, or .410 gauges only (even though technically .410 is not a "gauge").

These events are separate from the Main Event and from all other events. A shooter can elect to shoot in 1, 2, or all of the sub-gauge events. In each event, you are competing against shooters who are using only that gauge (or smaller) shell. You can compete in the 20 gauge event with a 28 gauge load, but not vice versa. It's also OK to use gauge reducers (such as ChamberMates) in your gun. I've done this numerous times. For example, you could use your 12 gauge O/U with ChamberMate inserts to shoot in 20, 28, or .410 events. That way, you are using a gun that is familiar to you and that balances, points, and shoots the same way as your main gun since it IS your main gun.

Separate awards and separate prizes (along with separate punches) are awarded for these sub-gauge events. Any punches earned count just the same as those earned in any other event, e.g. Main Event, FITASC, 5-Stand, Preliminary, etc.
 
The bummer is, Browning doesn't currently sell a barrel over 28" without their assinine porting.

They dropped a pantload of holes in the 28" version of this puppy as well. I swore I'd never own anything with porting - never say "never" I guess. All it takes is one fouled up order that I accept responsibility for and I'm on the porting bandwagon.

They're hard to see when the thing is shouldered. That's some consolation I suppose.
 
Sub-Gauge "sporting" is another term for shooting events that dates way back, and it seems has been lost in context, or time.

I am going to back to when I was coming up and I am over age 50.

Keep in mind we had Veterans of Wars, Vietnam, and folks would be limited in some way , be this detached retina, neck, back, shoulder surgeries, age, arthritis - and those shooters due to high round counts, that had injuries...

NO Recoil orders by doctors were issued back in the day as they are now.
In time, and healing, some were allowed to shoot .410, and hopefully later on 28 gauge.

Skeet allowed these folks to shoot.
Trap Folks, did take up skeet, still Trap folks have a right to shoot their game.

Short Trap was set up to allow .410 use.

Times were different if you will, and before all the non-tox came to be , many times hunting spots, including ducks, was restricted by property owners to guns no larger than 28 ga, and even to only .410.
Part of this reason was habitat respect and mgmt and quite a bit was common courtesy and respect for Veterans and others with physical limits.

Same idea followed with 5 stand and Sporting clays.

I am aware of some private shooting places, with skeet, trap, 5 stand, and sporting clays - plus hunting, that was invite only and kept private.

I'll be blunt, some persons were disfigured from burns or severe scars and other things. Back in the day, society was more receptive of this, just as they were Polio Victims.

Vietnam Vets, were not well received. Private Folks familiar with all this sub-gauge shotgunning , assisted in these folks and families having a place to shoot, and have quality time.

Others were invited, such as other Vets from other conflicts, physically limited persons , some disfigured from burns, or other trauma, some that were going through recovering stages of detached retina, neck, back, shoulder surgery.

I guess it was time this came out, as many today are obviously not aware of it.

I know about this, as I was part of this, being as I how I was mentored.
My earlies memory is age 3, so that would around 1958.
One pulled off the blacktop out in the country, farm country, and went down a dirt road, muddy when wet, and kept on going, down and around past clumps of trees.

It was beautiful. Still being built, with private money, by private folks.
Farm pond built, and built to be accessed by wheel chairs.

The Trap field, was only 3 stations, and the shooters could sit in wheelchairs under a tin roof for shade. I do not recall the yardage, but it allowed for a .410 shotgun to break clays.

These Veterans, and others could shoot, picnic, be with families, and interact.
As time went on 5 stations.
Skeet field.
Pistol range and rifle range.

I guess what we did was 5 stand and Sporting Clays, with some things we set up and built back in the day...we just wanted folks to be able to shoot, interact, and replicate hunting...

Areas in woods cleared and benches where these folks could sit and pop squirrels and other game.
It was about them, not us, it always about others.

These same ideas, with private folks and private money continued over time, even when 5 stand, and Sporting Clays came to be.

These private places were the setting for lessons, later on folks would come up with 3 gun, and we were doing this before 3 gun come to be.

We had "indoor" shoot houses, so these folks could do lessons on staying safe with a shotgun, that .410 or 28ga, or pistol, or rifle.

This might explain a bit my take on some things, like shooting, passing forward, getting out of self, kids and .410 and 28 ga shotguns.
Sporting is not really the correct term, still it was used in a different context for me and mine coming up.
 
Ah, SM. Since you're here I should hasten to add I wasn't trying to buy targets with the original idea. I had lost a fair amount of weight due to a little health issue (worked out well, the health issue sorted itself out but the weight stayed gone). Must've gotten a touch weaker as old faithful was feeling a tad heavy but that's temporary as well.

Anyhow, I (thought I'd) ordered a 20 Ga. Cynergy feather field w/28" barrels - figured it'd get me out in the fresh air and maybe help with the BA/UU/R resolution which had taken it in the shorts rather badly. The idea of the Luke Skywalker recoil pad was sounding good too.

So what shows up has a traditional (think Enfield Jungle carbine) recoil pad, weighs a pound and a half more than I wanted and has holes in the barrel.

Anyhow, it's close enough. I've signed onto a rank beginner skeet class that starts in April, I'm learning to become one with the barrel holes - I'm going to turn lemons into lemonaide and make them my personal good luck charm - like the feather. Not an easy task as my opinion of them started out being considerably less generous than ArmedBear's.

It's not without its charm - the wood isn't glossy so it looks less tarted up than the one that turned heavy on me. It seems to swing nicely but I haven't even patterned it yet. And the safety doesn't engage every time it's opened - that's one thing I like about SC guns. The wood to metal fit is, well, weird - the butt is what we used to call "proud" but it's not objectionable - does kinda look like somebody slapped a 12 ga butt stock on a 20 ga receiver but what the hey. Best of all, it fits. My face got a good deal less cherubic and old faithful's cast-off was no longer needed - in fact, I would probably have to put the whole mole on it rather than just the skin. Never thought I'd appreciate Browning's straight stock - things change.
 
Hawk,

I know you are not trying to buy skill and targets.
I understand and respect where you are what you are going to do.
I wish you all the best.

Server hung, and I did not include in re-submit my preface for my post.
I had some contact me behind the scenes with questions about "sub gauge sporting", and others (how to say best) not wanting a bashing thread as to why anyone would use a "sub gauge" shotgun for anything, since a 12 can be loaded down, and that "argument" about 28 ga being a snobbish gauge.

Being honest, there exists "silly tribe mentality" and this is a negative for all gun owners.

Why are some guns built?
Some are built for folks to effectively use them for their tasks.

Others, like anything else, are manufactured and driven by marketing, to put braces on their teeth and pay for college...as the item itself sure ain't flip for anything else. *grin*


Best of luck!
Remember:

One can't miss with all them pellets, and if the bird don't break, you were taking it easy on the rest of squad.

Blame the puller...

Forgot your luck charm...

Need to go pee...

Days that end in "Y" do that to your shooting....

*I'm Helping*
 
Even in sporting configuration the thing is nice and light - about 6 1/4.

The "feather" was listed at 5 but I believe ArmedBear pointed out it was likely a typo as the 28 was slightly over 5.

Still, I learned something - didn't know we had sub-gauge sporting clays or 5-stand. Good on 'em. Also, didn't know anyone could get worked up over sub-gauge or confuse it with bashing. Well, I've said smarmy stuff about porting but I usually append a
:) <- one of those.

Given my current situation a 28 would have made good solid sense but I was hunting lightness and there wasn't much to separate the two in that regard - that, and I've got a flat or three of 20 Ga ammo that needs burned up.

I'm kinda looking forward to this.
 
Most of the seasoned Skeet shooter at my club shoot 20's, 28's and/or .410's more often than 12 gauge. Most of them shoot Skeet better than I, so I, tend to respect them and try to learn from them. Most of them move a gun like it is an extension of their arm. It is a beautiful motion.

I tried a couple of shots from a 12 gauge with .410 tubes once. It was on the low house bird on station 8. Maybe I was just dreaming but it was one of the best swinging guns I've ever held; great balance.
 
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