SubZero Testing

[MT GUNNY]

I was recently Blessed with -6 Deg weather here in MT. So at work a couple days ago I had my S&W 1911 with Me. Smith stayed in the Truck where it got down right Cold. Smith was lubed with "Terra Gun Grease" , At lunch time I worked the Action it was very slow to chamber a round. At that point it concerned me, how would it perform in a needed situation when cold.

So just a little while ago I added some Remington "Rem Oil" to the Barrel bushing and slide areas. I proceeded to set it out side in -1 Deg Temp.
after an Hour I did a function Check on it. The action traveled at Normal looking Speeds.

So I now have a Winter Lube Formula. My one ? is it safe to fire a 1911 in sub zero temperatures ? I have fired Rifles in these temps, just not Pistols.
Right now I'm trying to find out if Rem Oil will freeze in -Deg weather.
I know this wasn't Scientific, just thought it was interesting.

Update; Rem Oil didnt Freeze after over 3 hours in freezing temps.

 

[dakotasin]

i shoot rifles and handguns in whatever temps, and that includes 1911's. i have found my own personal level of range fun is about done at -10°, and have not purposefully tested much beyond that... only exception that comes to mind is remington 700's and 870's during coyote hunts...

anyway, shouldn't have any safety issues w/ guns down to whatever temp. function issues vary wildly depending on lebenty billion different things, but safety isn't an issue.

 

[franconialocal]

Did the right thing

First of all, how is MT these days?? Love it there.....

Anyway, you did the right thing. I carry for duty here in northern NH (a.k.a. also friggin' cold) and always "lighten" my lubes come fall/winter. Good choice with the Rem. oil. I've always really enjoyed it even though it gets a bad rap on this forum. For me the key isn't so much "which" oil, but frequency of cleaning/inspection. Alot of guys like to leave the side-arm SOAKING wet with the oil-of-choice. Me?...I just flat out disagree. Oil is one thing, but overall cleanliness, inspection, testing (gold star for you there!!), etc. will serve you better than all the over-oiling in the world. Rem oil is nice and light for these cold environments. My grandfather fixed clocks for YEARS (high end stuff, OLD stuff) and he would be rolling over in his grave if he saw how much oil some people use.

Good tests....keep up the good work.

 

[BruceB]

After living in Canada's Northwest Territories for over thirty years, and being an active hunter/gun-owner/shooter for all that time, I have some firm conclusions about what works.

Note that I'm not just talking about "cold"....I am also talking about COLD, as in thirty to forty or more degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

After some quite extensive cold-weather testing and use, I determined that handguns weren't much of a concern because they are not commonly carried out in the weather in deep cold. For one thing, warmer-weather carry gear simply doesn't fit over heavy winter parkas and other such clothing. For another, riding snow-machines, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing etc., all tend to foul exposed belt-carried guns with airborne snow and ice. Shoulder holsters beneath the heavy garments are the ideal cold-weather setup, since the gun can be drawn with only minimal unzipping etc of outer garments, and it's out of the weather until needed. Still, we kept handguns bone-dry, with NO lube whatever. This was just in case the gun had to be exposed to the cold longer than a few minutes.

The same applies to rifles, including semi-autos. For the very limited number of rounds likely to be needed in COLD-weather use, a dry rifle (no lube whatever) will suffer no harm, and it is far more likely to function when needed than a lubed rifle which has been cold-soaked out in the weather for hours. In one test, I fully-loaded a steel 40-round .223 AR-180 magazine and stored it in that condition for about eight months (contrary to my normal practice of loading mags only to 90% capacity). On a brisk 40-below-zero morning, I placed the DRY AR-180 and the loaded mag outside and left them there for several hours. When loaded and fired after that cold-soaking, the rifle functioned perfectly through all forty rounds.

One important factor is that once a gun becomes chilled down to ambient temps in colder weather, even ABOVE zero degrees F, it should be kept cold until its role is finished. A cold gun brought into a warm environment will attract condensation throughout its innards as well as its exterior, and that moisture will freeze solid the next time the gun is taken outside. If hunting, for example, case the rifle at the end of the day and leave it outside...locked in a vehicle, or hanging outside the tent, whatever, but NOT in the warmth. Even cased, the rifle will attract moisture indoors, and lots of it.

Lube for cold weather??? NONE.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Also, snow is terrible for stock finishes, I know this by experiance.

 

[franconialocal]

+1 No Lube

Bruce B. Well sir, you must have some sixth sense. As per my original post I still believe in frequent cleaning, oiling, and inspection but I guess I was feeling somewhat of a "no-one will believe me" if I told everyone how dry I run my weapons overall. +1 with the snow/ice problem too. Unfortunately, at least with my duty weapon, I am stuck with policy being a standard gear setup, ready and accessible on the outside of my clothing (including winter gear) Are we just blessed by having this cool DRY northern air?? Perhaps. I read tons of literature about the lubrication arguments and maybe that's why these really "light" oils just work well here.

Now if I could just do something about this damn road salt.........

 

[LGswift]

I am in the Canadian Forces, we are taught to use graphite lube very sparingly in the arctic conditions we opperate in from time to time .... Also bringing a weapon inside a heated structure while it is cold outiside will create condensation on the weapon of course and this could result in rust or the freezing of the action as mentioned.

 

[svtruth]

Is there any danger

of the firing pin becoming brittle?
I do know that WWII fighters had gun warming equipment to keep the grease from becoming too hard.

 

[SaxonPig]

I have had oil freeze and lock a gun solid at -17 degrees. I don't live in that sort of cold any longer but I think about how oiling the gun rendered it nonfunctional.

Also quickly discovered that carry guns got clogged with dirt and lint, trapped by the oil in the gun.

Oil left too long congeals. I had a 22 pistols that went without cleaning too long and finally quit working because the oil had turned into tar. It was quite a job cleaning it all out.

So, I quit putting oil in my guns. Many years later they all still work fine without any oil and all of the associated problems went away.

 

[nafran]

shooters choice grease

Hey everyone, I'm not a big poster, but I saw this thread and thought I'd include my experience this last weekend in MT.

I've been using Shooter's Choice Grease for the last 6-8 months and on Sunday I finally put it to the cold weather test. This past Sunday in Bozeman, I finally got around to taking my CWP training course, which included a 50 round shooting test. We started the class at 1pm and headed out to shoot around 3:30pm before it got dark and even colder. At this time the temp was around -13F. Without even thinking, I had left my 1911 outside in the car during the class time inside. Just before I stepped up to shoot, I thought 'uh-oh, I wonder if that grease is really rated to -65F'.

I'm hear to tell you that 100 rounds later (gf also used the pistol to shoot) there was no problem with operation. Racking the slide to chamber the first round went fine, no slow motion moves. So while I didn't get to test Shooters Choice down to the -65F, not that I ever want to, it did just fine sitting out in a cold car for 2.5 hours. I can live with that.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

LGswift, do you know what brand the Canadian forces use? I love to shoot in the snow. (Not arctic tempuratures or anything, just 20 farenheit or so.)

 

[B yond]

is it even possible to freeze oil?

 

[Dean Williams]

B yond;

is it even possible to freeze oil?

Not really, and not at temps we can tolerate for very long. Not in the way we think of freezing, as in water that has become a solid, at least. Viscosity is the problem for oil in cold weather, and it is greatly affected by temperature in some common lubricants.
Highly refined and formulated oils, like Remoil are very good for remaining at a working viscosity at extreme temperature lows. Put some in your freezer to see. Then try it with 30 wt motor oil. The Remoil will act much the same as it does at room temp. The motor oil will start getting "thick".

 

[Geneseo1911]

is it even possible to freeze oil?

Everything has a freezing point. We've frozen gasoline in left over liquid nitrogen at work. It goes solid, but melts in a matter of seconds after you pull it out. Of course, stick your hand in liquid N, it'll freeze solid too (but then we're mostly water anyway).

 

[nicholst55]

Extreme cold does strange things to all types of equipment, including guns and lubricants. I have seen motor oil turn to slush after cold soaking to -40 overnight. It wasn't frozen solid, but it certainly wouldn't be lubricating your car's engine. Undiluted anti-freeze will, however, freeze solid.

M16s tend to get very finicky in extreme cold (-30 and below), due to the differing rates of contraction of the aluminum and steel components. I have seen M249 SAW safeties refuse to move after a night exposed to -40 temps. Whether it was from congealed oil or the different rates of contraction of the steel safety and the aluminum trigger housing, I don't know.

Plain old CLP (and LSA) is rated as effective to -10 F; the US military specifies LAW (Lube Oil, Arctic, Weapons) from +10 to minus whatever, and has for decades.