Loyalist Dave
Member
The .38 rimfire launched a 150 grain lead bullet at about 900+ fps..., so not a bad round for 1870-1900 in a vest-pocket-piece in a town or city, especially in the East.
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Suicide Special revolver club
- Thread starter JohnnyCremains
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Gordon
Member
More like 500+ FPS I believe in actuality on a good day with a tight bored gun. .38 S&W ammo I have chronoed from 2" Terriers do high 600/low 700 fps with various modern ammo. Even the snappy ones only go less than 750 FPS . The same loads do 100 fps more in my post war Webly with 4" barrel. These guns have tight bores for a good gas seal and smokeless powder with higher pressures than the 10 grains of black the old .38 rimfires had , Also closer flash gap ect. So I'm saying the 900+fps with 150 neverwas, not even close. We know with a 75 grain round ball and a 5-7" barrel 10 grains of black , even 4F only gives about 700 FPS. That is half of 150 grains and double the length of barrel of a suicide special.
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Loyalist Dave
Member
You mean Wikipedia was inaccurate? 
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Sunray
Member
Huge pictures aside, 'Suicide Special' would be a derogatory, anti-firearm ownership, term. Just like 'Saturday Night Special' that this stuff was called when declared evil 10 years later by the GCA of 1968.
These firearms were made because the average citizen in the late 19th Century couldn't afford firearms like Colts or Smith & Wesson's. Them being rimfires was just technology. IJ, H&A, H&R(as well as Colt, S&W, Winchester, etc.) and a bunch of others long gone or bought out made lots of centre fire "pocket pistols" in .32 S&W, .32-20, .38 S&W etc, etc.
There's a post from 2012 on another forum where one of the guys has an 1877 Remington and an 1890 Colt ammo catalogue. .32 Long ran $13.50 per 1,000. A Machinist made about 24 cents per hour(~ $2.52 per day.) for a 60 hour work week. And that's not Monday to Friday.
They're also a really forgotten area of collection too. Most of 'em have been rode hard and put away wet. Consequently they're usually well rusted internally.
"...why no one has made .22 reproductions..." Little or no demand, but as mentioned, NAA and Freedom Arms stuff. And most of the European stuff was banned by the GC of '68.
These firearms were made because the average citizen in the late 19th Century couldn't afford firearms like Colts or Smith & Wesson's. Them being rimfires was just technology. IJ, H&A, H&R(as well as Colt, S&W, Winchester, etc.) and a bunch of others long gone or bought out made lots of centre fire "pocket pistols" in .32 S&W, .32-20, .38 S&W etc, etc.
There's a post from 2012 on another forum where one of the guys has an 1877 Remington and an 1890 Colt ammo catalogue. .32 Long ran $13.50 per 1,000. A Machinist made about 24 cents per hour(~ $2.52 per day.) for a 60 hour work week. And that's not Monday to Friday.
They're also a really forgotten area of collection too. Most of 'em have been rode hard and put away wet. Consequently they're usually well rusted internally.
"...why no one has made .22 reproductions..." Little or no demand, but as mentioned, NAA and Freedom Arms stuff. And most of the European stuff was banned by the GC of '68.
Gaucho Gringo
Member
Alll for black powder only, a consideration if you want to shot them today(if you could find ammo or components for the rimfire cartridges today). For .22 you could pull modern shorts and reload with BP. There is a kit for making .32 rimfire with the included brass using .22 nail gun loads as primers with the kits specially offset .32 brass but they are fairly expensive. I have a couple of small later revolvers in centerfire .32 S&W that fall into this catagory.
Acera
Member
Ok, I got a little revolver that fits some but not all the requirements. Tell me why this one would not be included, as it seems to be pretty close to the others.
It's an Ethan Allen, .22, 7-shot and I am guessing made prior to 1871.
BTW, it shoots fine. Popped a few rounds in the garage with CB caps over the years.
It's an Ethan Allen, .22, 7-shot and I am guessing made prior to 1871.
BTW, it shoots fine. Popped a few rounds in the garage with CB caps over the years.
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JohnnyCremains
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Ok, I got a little revolver that fits some but not all the requirements. Tell me why this one would not be included, as it seems to be pretty close to the others.
It's an Ethan Allen, .22, 7-shot and I am guessing made prior to 1871.
BTW, it shoots fine. Popped a few rounds in the garage with CB caps over the years.
Close enough! Definitely part of the Suicide Special evolution. You're in the club!
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JohnnyCremains
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I've been looking for one of these for a decent price for quite a while now. I had the TERROR and the BULL DOG and just needed the SWAMP ANGEL to complete the trifecta.
I was delighted when it came and was in much better condition than the sellers pictures suggested. Lots of high polish blue left and still shows some nice case colors on the hammer. Bore and chambers are excellent, bright and shiny. This was a definite win. It would have sold for more if the seller had posted better pictures. I'm glad he didn't.
The only things missing are the mainspring strain screw and the ejector rod that should be in the middle of the cylinder pin. That rod is almost always missing from these. My BULL DOG is the only one that still has it.
Here are all three in my F&W trifecta
I was delighted when it came and was in much better condition than the sellers pictures suggested. Lots of high polish blue left and still shows some nice case colors on the hammer. Bore and chambers are excellent, bright and shiny. This was a definite win. It would have sold for more if the seller had posted better pictures. I'm glad he didn't.
The only things missing are the mainspring strain screw and the ejector rod that should be in the middle of the cylinder pin. That rod is almost always missing from these. My BULL DOG is the only one that still has it.
Here are all three in my F&W trifecta
Gaucho Gringo
Member
Your 3 revolvers and the Ethan Allen above are a cut above the usual SNS(Saturday Night Specials) of the era these guns were made. They all have a locking bolt with a corresponding cylinder notch for the bolt for a positive lockup(depending on the fit of the parts) where most SNS use the pawl(hand) at the rear of the cylinder for both rotating the cylinder and lockup. Later IJ and H&R guns that are safe for mild smokeless loads have bolt locking notches in the cylinders. I still don't know if yours are safe for mild smokeless loads or are BP only. They all look to be in nice condition for their age and the fact that they were inexpensive guns to begin with
kBob
Member
Johnny,
Does that ejector rod differ in size for each caliber or is it a common part between the three?
How hard would it be for you to use the one as a model and turn a new one for each of the others from say a large nail? I have a semi auto that has a firing pin made from a shotgun firing pin that was simply chucked into a drill press, spun up and gone at with files and sand paper. I know the machinist in our mist are cringing over that but sometimes a man has got to do what a man has got to do......while wearing a stout shop apron and face protection.
-kBob
Does that ejector rod differ in size for each caliber or is it a common part between the three?
How hard would it be for you to use the one as a model and turn a new one for each of the others from say a large nail? I have a semi auto that has a firing pin made from a shotgun firing pin that was simply chucked into a drill press, spun up and gone at with files and sand paper. I know the machinist in our mist are cringing over that but sometimes a man has got to do what a man has got to do......while wearing a stout shop apron and face protection.
-kBob
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