SUNY students (some) propose armed campus watch/militia

[carebear]

http://www.newswatch50.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=53FD501C-6613-458A-9A79-A32718096F2C

Armed student militia for SUNY Potsdam?

Update: SUNY Potsdam's Deidre Kelly, Acting Director of Public Affairs issued the following statement:

At this time, there has been no student organization or individuals who have contacted anyone in the campus administration about forming a militia. It appears to be a conversation that is taking place within a student organization.

If students wish to engage in a conversation about students' rights or safety issues, we would be happy to meet with them and discuss their concerns. However, campus regulations and state law prohibit possession of firearms on campus, and we support those policies.

SUNY Potsdam's campus is extremely safe. We have University Police Officers actively engaged in patrolling the campus and the areas around campus regularly. The University Police Office is open 24 hours a day. We also offer a number of services to students, such as escorts, a Blue Light System and safety programing. (End of statement)




5/9/06

An armed student militia should patrol the grounds on and off campus at SUNY Potsdam, according to the Chairman of the College Republicans.

Kelly Eustis tells NewsWatch50 he borrowed the idea from student leaders at SUNY New Paltz but also believes it's a Republican-oriented issue.

"I believe it is our constitutional right," Eustis said. "It will show people that it is the right to bear arms. It will also act as a defense organization for the students of SUNY Potsdam and act as a kind of a watchdog group for police."

Eustis said that after just a few days of soliciting he has 16 students interested in being a part of the militia.

At SUNY New Paltz, Student Association leaders are proposing patrols consisting of three students, two armed with shotguns and a third carrying a video camera. They say this would act as a "watchdog group" against police abuses.

State law and SUNY regulations prohibit firearms on campuses. That means students at both campuses will have to confine their efforts off campus or without weapons unless the regulations are changed.

NewsWatch50: "So you're not pressing for on-campus weapons for these patrols?" Eustis: "Well we will be pressing for it but we probably won't be seeing it for a really long time."

Deidre Kelly, SUNY Potsdam's Acting Director of Public Affairs said she spent the day fielding calls about the militia proposal.

She said students she talked to feel that a student militia isn't needed.

"The consensus seems to be that they feel the university police office is doing a great job and if students want to volunteer to help out in some kind of, maybe neighborhood watch, then that would be welcome," Kelly said.

She said that far from making the campus safer, guns in students' hands would likely have the opposite effect.

"So it's always best to keep firearms in the hands of professionals who are trained to use them," Kelly said.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

At SUNY New Paltz, Student Association leaders are proposing patrols consisting of three students, two armed with shotguns and a third carrying a video camera. They say this would act as a "watchdog group" against police abuses.

I'm a little confused. Is this supposed to be a neighborhood watch to prevent crime or a police watchdog group? I dunno if a shotgun wielding police watchdog group is a great idea. Seems like a recipe for things to get out of hand. I'm all for an armed student suplement to the police though.

 

[carebear]

I think the camera is to document ANY interactions they may have for evidence, to CYA against complaints of threatening or illegal behavior by them but in this particular sense to CYA if the police show up and hassle them about being armed they'll have a record of what was said and done on both sides.

Similar to bars videoing drunks being tossed out as evidence against wrongful complaints later.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

I agree with PW, they seem to be confused as to what they want their mission to be. Either be a millitia, or be a Police Wachdog, you can't really be both. The millitia could gain alot by working with the police and that would be hard if their mission is to actively look for police abuse (even good people don't like having Nannies). A watchdog group with guns seems like it is just asking for trouble the minute they see(or think) a LEO step out of line.

Its a good idea, but a bad plan.

 

[carebear]

I think the comment was badly stated and you're misinterpreting it.

The purpose of the patrols is crime prevention, the purpose of the CAMERA is to deter potential law enforcement abuses upon watch members.

It doesn't make any sense for "a watchdog group for police" to mean anything but "for the purpose of assisting the".

We might should check for other articles, better written and perhaps quoting more adept speakers.

 

[carebear]

Well, here to eat my crow. I was wrong.

I should have known my foot was approaching the ol' cakehole when I was brassy enough to write this-

It doesn't make any sense for "a watchdog group for police" to mean anything but "for the purpose of assisting the".

My apologies Fink and Phantom, your comprehension is just fine. Can we ask these kids to change sides? I think I liked them better as leftist pansies. :banghead:


SUNY-New Paltz up in arms
By Wire


By David Savercool

The New Paltz Oracle

A group of students at the State University of New York at New Paltz is in the process of forming a potential student militia.

If brought to life, the militia could be joined by any willing student and will consist of 13 sections or “platoons,” according to wikipaltz.com. Each platoon will independently elect three executive officers, a first lieutenant, a lieutenant and warrant officer, who will have the power to compose a New Paltz Student Militia Central Council (NPSMCC).

The first lieutenant of each platoon will serve a one-month term as executive of the NPSMCC, resulting in a constant rotation of leadership throughout the year. If there’s a “conflict” or if “combat operations” are taking place, the NPSMCC may vote, by majority, to allow the current executive officer to remain in power until the conflict is resolved.

Student government Senators Brian Gold and Dan Curtis, Executive Secretary of the Senate Michael Peters, Senate Chair Justin Holmes and President R.J. Partington III are the prime movers on the idea of a militia. Gold put the platoon information on the page describing the militia on wikipaltz.com, Peters said.

“I think it’s very, very, very ambitious,” Peters said. “It would be great if we had 13 platoons; that would be 700 people. I don’t really know how we’re going to structure that.”

Anyone would be allowed to join the militia, and all members would have to go through intense training.

The training would occur at the beginning of the spring and fall semesters. During week one, members would educate the new members on “understanding the role of a student militia.”

“Firearms education” would comprise week two. Firearms education would continue, along with range firing, during the third week of training.

Week four would entail leadership training. The fifth and sixth weeks would consist of field training. Finally, week seven would conclude the training with an induction into the militia, and participants would have platoon assignments.

“Here we want to do firearms training so that people know the proper use of firearms,” Peters said.

The main purpose of the militia is “to provide a defense organization for the student body of SUNY New Paltz,” according to wikipaltz.com. “Composed of students, it will exist to protect the rights and interests of students against all enemies, internal and external.”

According to the Web site, the militia will also be established as a protection of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, ensuring the right to bear arms.

“To be perfectly honest,” Peters said, “I think that [the tyranny] is aimed at the administration’s policies and the police.”

Peters added, “I know one thing that has consistently been talked about is if the police are harassing students.”

Eventually, Peters and the other members would like to get New York State to pass laws that allow students to carry weapons on campus.

“If [the police are] going to have guns, we should have guns,” Peters said. “If we can’t have guns then they shouldn’t be able to have guns. It should be one or the other.”

Peters added, “On a base level, when one group in society doesn’t have weapons and a group that’s in control of them does, then the group without weapons is always going to be discriminated against. That’s how it has worked throughout all of history.”

Ultimately, Peters said, he would love to see the militia have a 24-hour office in the Student Union Building.

“If you go through Campus Judicial against a [University Police Department] officer, it’s your word against theirs and they’re always going to trust the UPD officer over the student,” Peters said.

The militia would also be available to escort students around campus, because of the allegedly “fickle” current campus escort system.

“I’d like to model some patrols after Vassar [College],” Peters said. “They have a student patrol group. You can call them and they’ll escort you anywhere.”

The concept of a student militia is relatively new, according to Peters, who said that after extensive research, he couldn’t find any other school with a militia.

The militia will have to submit a charter form to the chairperson of New Paltz’s Council of Organizations. The organization will then perform a three-minute presentation before the body. Other organizations have the right to ask the founders of the militia questions. After the question session, the leaders of the militia will leave the room, the various organizations will conduct a discussion and vote whether or not to approve the proposition. It’s up to the other clubs to induct the new club, Peters said.

The group was supposed to present to the Council of Orgs for approval on April 24, but because of the recent elections and election campaigns, the leaders were too busy, according to Peters.

“We want to make sure students are safe, with or without weapons,” Peters said.

He added, “We’re a watchdog group for the police. We’re an advocacy group for students’ rights in general.”

E-mail the writer at [email protected]

 

[toivo]

The reason people are confused about this story is that the people who proposed this whole thing in the first place weren't exactly firing on all cylinders. I live near there and followed the story in the local press. The backstory is that students were unhappy about campus police cracking down on drug use and underage drinking.

One issue is that the college provides an escort service at night, but the escorts would call the campus police on people who were underage and intoxicated. The campus police wouldn't hesitate to make arrests. Another issue is that the campus police weren't shy about arresting people for smoking marijuana openly in public or in the dorms. The clear intent of the militia proposal was to be in opposition to, not in cooperation with, the campus police.

The campus police at New Paltz are not rent-a-cops or Gestapo. I have known people on that force, and they struck me as a pretty professional bunch:

http://www.newpaltz.edu/police/

I see it as a case of spoiled-brat entitlement gone wild: "Fight for your right to party!" Smoking weed on the street and puking on people's lawns are protected by the Constitution, aren't they? I was young and stupid once too, but it never got me on the national news. Maybe I should've started a militia.

There are plenty of legitimate struggles for rights and against tyranny. This ain't one of them.

 

[Autolycus]

I love the idea but I understand what toivo is saying. I have a lot of problems with the frat house on the corner. They are constantly causing trouble.

We have a campus escort (I keep thinking of hookers! ) service. They only take women home and will not take a man home. A lot of the females use them as a cab service by having them the car service (they drive students up to 3 miles from campus) drop them at a corner near the bar they are going to. It upsets me as I have to pay for this service and I am not allowed to use it because I am a man. I was allowed to use it when I was sick (sick, elderly, and injured people can use it). However I have been harrased by the local homeless, by frat kids because I call the cops when they break bottles on my lawn, and just nervouse because of the high crime rate. I cant CCW becuase of the idiots in my home states legislature. As it is I am trying to transfer to a CCW state and a big city. I miss the city and dislike the college town atmosphere here.

But as it goes I am sympathetic to some of the kids but I think they should just try to get equal CCW in NY and lobby so they can carry anywhere in the state (READ NYC).

 

[toivo]

But as it goes I am sympathetic to some of the kids but I think they should just try to get equal CCW in NY and lobby so they can carry anywhere in the state (READ NYC).

The problem is that these kids aren't really interested in CCW as an issue. In fact, they're talking about using shotguns for their militia. Their whole issue is "The cops can't tell us what to do." When the campus escort service turns them down (or turns them in) because they're D&D or smoking weed, they call it "harassment." It's a joke.

It's not even a high-crime campus. There's just no way any college is going to let students patrol the campus with shotguns. For starters, they'd lose their liability insurance in a heartbeat.

 

[Manedwolf]

Kinda wonder why these kids don't just walk down to their local recruiting office and enlist, instead, if they want to be in platoons and divisions with officers and all?

If they're serious, they don't need to be playing soldiers on a college campus. The troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan could certainly use more help.

The first lieutenant of each platoon will serve a one-month term as executive of the NPSMCC, resulting in a constant rotation of leadership throughout the year. If there’s a “conflict” or if “combat operations” are taking place, the NPSMCC may vote, by majority, to allow the current executive officer to remain in power until the conflict is resolved.

Though on second thought, if I were in the service, I likely wouldn't want some of those sorts anywhere near anywhere I was stationed. Sounds like some people have played a liiiiiitle too much Battlefield and Counterstrike, and maybe need a bit more of a social life. Or a date.

 

[Erebus]

Sounds to me like they are looking for a way to stop the police from stopping them from breaking laws and campus rules. Not behavior I would encourage. Certainly not with firearms.

During the DNC in Boston in 2004 students(and a few others) thought blocking traffic by laying in the roadway on major roads during rush hour constituted a legitimate form of protest. I would hate to think what they would come up with if they had shotguns readily avaliable.

However if they want to organize a group to patrol the campus and escort students around safely I am all for that. Give them hats and jackets or t-shirts that identify them as "campus patrol" or whatever they want to call it. In groups of no less than 3 at a time and let them carry video cameras if they would like. The only problem I see arising is these students seem to think that they are entitled to engage in underaged drinking and illegal drug use. Would this group be required to report such behavior to authorities should they find it and would they?

However there is a flip side of this coin.. I would rather have a group of resposible students escort a drunk student back to his or her dorm to "sleep it off" rather than have him or her try to stumble their way back trying to avoid getting in trouble. At least this way The group can insure they arrive safely and are secure in their dorm before leaving them. Rather than have them venture out alone and turn up in a river. If this group is required to turn them in they won't call them for an escort.

A 2A advocasy group on campus is a great idea. But I question this particular group's motives, confronting police with shotguns is not going to benefit them at all.

 

[Manedwolf]

But I question this particular group's motives, confronting police with shotguns is not going to benefit them at all.

Well, in a general sense, that'd be a form of social Darwinism. Likely remove them from the gene pool, if they did that.

 

[ravinraven]

Armed conflict at good old SUNYPot

It's always nice to read about your old amla mater. [got a master's there one time]. A coffee drinking friend of mine is the police chief. I'll have to ask him if he's looking forward to all this.

rr