Supreme Court won't overrule gun ownership restrictions

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Better have a trigger lock in SF I guess.




http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/08/supreme-court-handguns/27716645/





Supreme Court won't overrule gun ownership restrictions

The justices declined to reconsider the rights of local governments to constrain that right -- upheld by the high court in two landmark decisions over the past decade -- by requiring that handguns be disabled or locked up when they are not being carried. The high court left standing a San Francisco law imposing those restrictions, but Justices Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia dissented.

San Francisco imposed the limitation in 2007 under threat of a six-month jail term and $1,000 fine. The law was upheld by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which ruled it did not violate the Supreme Court's prior cases allowing guns to be kept at home for self-defense.

"The law ... burdens their right to self-defense at the times they are most vulnerable -- when they are sleeping, bathing, changing clothes, or otherwise indisposed," Thomas wrote. "There is consequently no question that San Francisco's law burdens the core of the Second Amendment right."
 
SCOTUS can only take so many cases. Just because they declined to take this case does not mean they will never take up another gun rights case.
 
People who reside in anti-gun states can testify to just how big a burden mandated locks are. I currently live in Massachusetts and we are required to lock up *all* firearms when they are not under our direct control, as well as all ammunition and components thereof. You could theoretically get jammed up for having an empty case in your pocket in the laundry basket after a trip to the range. Nightstand gun? Forget it. Very illegal.
 
As much as I would have liked Scotus to hear the case and overturn the lower court, I'd rather the majority decline to hear the appeal than find the ordinance constitutional. It seems the ordinance did just enough not to explicitly run afoul of the majority's view of Heller, by allowing for home carry and safes and not requiring trigger locks or disassembly. But without a ruling it's still possible other courts outside the Ninth could strike down similar laws.

It's clear, we can't count on the court to interpret burdens as infringements. I've hoped the court would extend Heller outside the home, but if it ever does, I would expect it to allow various restrictions to remain intact -- gun free zones, training requirements, technical specifications.
 
And who will be emboldened by this refusal to strike down the law? The anti's had been pushing safe storage laws just as hard as their background checks.

I also do not buy Thomas' assertion that the court is waiting for a substantial split to occur; they already have that on a number of carry issues, and yet no certs are granted for gun cases.

The Court has all but admitted they want no part of this issue, which one could either view as a soft endorsement of states' rights or a dereliction of duty, depending on your view of the court. I have to assume the immediate effect will be an ever increasing geographic 'sorting' around these gun issues, precisely the sort of divisive situation the Court is supposed to diffuse (before you get governor's refusing to accept adjacent states' authority to jail their citizens and drawing lines/etc.)

"As much as I would have liked Scotus to hear the case and overturn the lower court, I'd rather the majority decline to hear the appeal than find the ordinance constitutional. It seems the ordinance did just enough not to explicitly run afoul of the majority's view of Heller, by allowing for home carry and safes and not requiring trigger locks or disassembly. But without a ruling it's still possible other courts outside the Ninth could strike down similar laws."
To be honest, that is no reason not to see the case. Just because it is not a repeat of Heller (which would actually be a reason to not hear the case, but rather to order some sort of sanction on the lower court branches for ruling in direct violation of a recent precedent)

We need to know if it is constitutional for the government to order us to keep our guns locked up, because ultimately the only way to enforce this is by inspection. If the only way to enforce the law is illegal, how can the law be expected to persist?

TCB
 
We need to know if it is constitutional for the government to order us to keep our guns locked up, because ultimately the only way to enforce this is by inspection. If the only way to enforce the law is illegal, how can the law be expected to persist?

The court answered that question. By not taking the case the US Supreme Court has allowed the lower court's ruling to stand. Therefore, the safe storage rules are legal.

This law will not be enforced through inspection. It will be a tool that can be used to impart legal penalties on gun owners that allow their guns to fall into unauthorized hands. For example, it allows authorities to charge the parent of a kid takes their gun to school.
 
Seems like it was the wrong case to bring forward to address the issue.

BRIEF IN OPPOSITION

Petitioners seek to enjoin a San Francisco ordinance that requires handguns kept in the home to be stored locked when not carried on the person of an adult. Pet. App. 50-51. The ordinance does not require that gun owners keep their handguns unloaded, and it places no limits on the manner of keeping long guns. In opposition to petitioners’ motion for a preliminary injunction, respondents submitted evidence that handguns stored in modern lockboxes can quickly and easily be retrieved in the event of a self-defense emergency; that the simple measure of storing firearms locked reduces the risks of suicide and unintentional shootings, particularly among children and teens; and that measures making guns harder to steal can reduce gun thefts, a significant source of guns used in subsequent crimes. The district court denied petitioners’ motion for a preliminary injunction. In a unanimous opinion by Judge Ikuta, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found no abuse of discretion by the district court. The circuit court held that although the ordinance imposed some burden on petitioners’ Second Amendment rights, San Francisco’s evidence supported the conclusion that the bur- den was insubstantial. Pet. App. 14-17. Moreover, San Francisco showed that the ordinance was reasonably likely to advance its important interests in public safety. Id. at 18-21.

The court’s interlocutory decision does not warrant further review. Judge Ikuta’s opinion was consistent with District of Columbia v. Heller, which noted that nothing in its analysis “suggest the invalidity of laws regulating the storage of firearms to prevent accidents,” 554 U.S. 570, 632 (2008). Petitioners attempt to equate San Francisco’s storage ordinance – which allows gun owners an unfettered right to carry guns in the home – with the absolute trigger-lock requirement that this Court invalidated in Heller. But the court of appeals rightly relied on a critical difference between the two laws: the ordinance invalidated in Heller had no self-defense exception, while San Francisco’s storage ordinance does not need one, because it allows gun owners to carry their guns for any purpose. Pet. App. 15.

The petition should be denied for the further reason that there is no division among the circuits or the state and federal courts concerning the constitutionality of storage laws like San Francisco’s. Petitioners do not even argue there is a conflict in these cases, but nonetheless warn that the appeals court “crossed the Rubicon,” and that this Court must grant review to forestall a “disturbing trend” of cases where lower courts have upheld other kinds of gun laws, such as those restricting public carrying or gun purchases by people under age 21. Pet. 12, 18-21, 26. But petitioners never explain why this case presents a suitable vehicle for addressing decisions about different laws.

Finally, petitioners argue that the Court should summarily reverse the decision of the court of appeals in light of Heller. But, as just noted, Heller addressed a law that effectively prohibited the use of firearms in the home for self-defense, a far cry from San Francisco’s ordinance regulating only the manner of storing guns and not their use. And even if there were a conflict between Heller and the decision below, summary reversal would not be appropriate here. Several jurisdictions have storage laws similar to San Francisco’s, and a great many more have laws that treat locked storage as a safe harbor from criminal liability where a child foreseeably gains unauthorized access to a gun. Summarily striking down San Francisco’s law compelling locked storage on a facial challenge would likely invalidate storage laws in other jurisdictions, and could, at a minimum, raise doubts about the validity of state laws that require locked storage to avoid criminal liability in some circumstances. Such a result should come about only after the benefit of full briefing and argument.
 
Funny how select municipal, county or state regulations are sacrosanct when viewed from the High Court and thrust upon us on a national level while others as PC drives them are not.

Worse still, some regulations, having no context whatsoever in the U.S. Constitution, are driven down our throats while firearms possession (clearly opined therein) is continually forced open by SCOTUS to local interpretation and endless debate.

OK, funny? Not really. More, sadly interesting.


Todd.
 
I dont think people's right to keep and bear arms is infringed by this law. In reading the federalist papers that address the issue, hamilton and madison wrote that the primary purpose of the 2nd amendment is for people to be armed either against the govt or against foreign incursions.

I personally would rather see stiff penalties for people that allow their guns to get into the hands of children that end up hurting someone else or themselves.

One positive aspect is that we will be able to clearly see that they do nothing to protect children. Somewhat like all the stoplight cameras that might actually increase accidents.

Im generally for legislation to exist at the lowest level possible and if san franciscans generally want to give up their rights and have a nanny city they can. They will eventually reap what they sow.
 
And who will be emboldened by this refusal to strike down the law? The anti's had been pushing safe storage laws just as hard as their background checks.

...

The Court has all but admitted they want no part of this issue, which one could either view as a soft endorsement of states' rights or a dereliction of duty, depending on your view of the court. I have to assume the immediate effect will be an ever increasing geographic 'sorting' around these gun issues, precisely the sort of divisive situation the Court is supposed to diffuse (before you get governor's refusing to accept adjacent states' authority to jail their citizens and drawing lines/etc.)

...

We need to know if it is constitutional for the government to order us to keep our guns locked up, because ultimately the only way to enforce this is by inspection. If the only way to enforce the law is illegal, how can the law be expected to persist?

TCB

It is constitutional in the 9th, at least until the court accepts a case with bearing on the question.

I doubt the Roberts court is going to be our RKBA saviour. Granted, we need to keep up the pressure in the courts, maybe we'll get lucky, but I think our surest strategy is to focus on pushing for and against legislation, initiative, etc. We don't know if SCOTUS will take another case, but we do know that restrictions and/or infringements stand to be strengthened or weakened in the legislative arena. Yes, there will be a "geographic sorting," but there isn't really another sure option -- and that has been going on since 1911.
 
San Francisco's ordinance...requires that when handguns are not being carried -- such as at night, when their owners are asleep -- be disabled with a trigger lock or kept in a locked container.

Occasionally the law produces absurd results. More so does the 9th Circuit. This is one shining example. A device is ruled legal, then ruled illegal to be kept operational when the bearer puts it down.
 
"The court answered that question. By not taking the case the US Supreme Court has allowed the lower court's ruling to stand. Therefore, the safe storage rules are legal."
A distinction without a difference in practice, but not in history. Yes, all sorts of budding tyrants will start pushing safe storage laws in all the usual places (inner cities where preemption is absent, and the slave states presently lacking it), but the question is still technically unresolved.

That means it can be resolved at any time going forward. The problem, of course, is that there is very little risk to a government passing these laws, even if they are ultimately struck down, same as how DC keeps slow-walking their compliance with very clear (and forceful) federal court orders.

I truly do think that ultimately, the precedent we need is that measures infringing on our right to keep and bear arms (since that train has already left the station) carries with it very specific legal liability should anything go awry and harm befall those complying. Until that time, we'll only ever see the one-sided argument "but we will make your actions safer" without any regard to the tactical disadvantage side of the coin (for criminals or government)

"It is constitutional in the 9th, at least until the court accepts a case with bearing on the question."
Technically correct, because the one thing our Founders did screw up was getting the concept of Judicial Review backward (laws assumed to be in accordance with the Constitution until challenged)

"Occasionally the law produces absurd results. More so does the 9th Circuit."
This is A) a perfect justification for a ruling, and B) why the 9th is overridden more than any circuit court

TCB
 
Whatever, Scalia and Thomas are joined at the hip, and make sense as usual.

"The law ... burdens their right to self-defense at the times they are most vulnerable -- when they are sleeping, bathing, changing clothes, or otherwise indisposed," Thomas wrote. "There is consequently no question that San Francisco's law burdens the core of the Second Amendment right."

Beautiful city, asinine gun laws.
 
The solution might be to not live in SF, or really, in CA, if you can help it. That's unfortunate.
 
What bothers me is the possibility, however small, that school administrators will ask students questions about how their parents store firearms, and pass along any suspicions to law enforcement. This could, theoretically, result in a search warrant, a visit from CPS, and other nightmares for the parents.
 
The best solution to this dilemma (imo) is to get a gun vault (or equivalent) that securely locks a handgun, but can be opened in 3 seconds flat.

View attachment 211249

Midway has them for $85

I have one on each floor of the house and they are very reliable, secure and easy to use.
Multiple reviewers at the link claim the electronic sensor stops working after x amount of time and then it can only be opened with the key. ???
 
Multiple reviewers at the link claim the electronic sensor stops working after x amount of time and then it can only be opened with the key. ???

there are two versions...

I have the one with the push buttons...

I have no experience with the finger print sensor Gunvaults... but have avoided them as I prefer to keep it simple.
 
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