G&R Tactical
Member
There are different levels of anodizing. Class 3 anodizing is not that common....
Surefire overpriced
- Thread starter DrDremel
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DrD, if you were referring to me in your post about buying only the best and most expensive, if you re-read my post I said "if you buy cheap", I believe that cheap and inexpensive are two different things. I like my Surefire's, but I surf the net to get the best price, now I am going to have to check out G&R Tactical, so I find a great, long lasting, quality built, great customer service piece of gear for an inexpensive price not a cheaply built one for less money.
I do believe that there is room for the Brinkman's, Maglites, Streamlight etc, but when you do what I do and you're trying to clear a location or you want another force option, then yes it's gonna be a Surefire. And like anything else I take care of it as I do with my cars, it ain't a Hummer but it is a Land Rover, yup take it offroading all the time, that's how I get to my house. Do I shoot premium ammo? Every chance I get, I shoot and qualify with what I carry, on every one of my weapons, but I am not here to defend myself (well maybe I am) or Surefire. I work very hard for my money, which I never had alot of before, so when I choose to spend my money, I spend it wisely on quality products.
And G&R is right, there aren't many places that do Class 3 anodizing
I do believe that there is room for the Brinkman's, Maglites, Streamlight etc, but when you do what I do and you're trying to clear a location or you want another force option, then yes it's gonna be a Surefire. And like anything else I take care of it as I do with my cars, it ain't a Hummer but it is a Land Rover, yup take it offroading all the time, that's how I get to my house. Do I shoot premium ammo? Every chance I get, I shoot and qualify with what I carry, on every one of my weapons, but I am not here to defend myself (well maybe I am) or Surefire. I work very hard for my money, which I never had alot of before, so when I choose to spend my money, I spend it wisely on quality products.
And G&R is right, there aren't many places that do Class 3 anodizing
G&R Tactical
Member
AMEN SHADOW 1!
G&R Tactical
Member
Please do! I sell a lot of items that are not on the web site (PRI, KAC to name a few). So please ask if there is something you are looking for.
Thanks,
Grant
Thanks,
Grant
Once again, I have to point out that the vast majority of Surefire lights are no where near ten times the cost of a Mag Lite. I know it sounds better when you are trying to make your point, but the fact is, it isn't true.
One thing that I know for a fact: I use a flashlight extensively in my job. In the 20 years that I have worked this job, I have tried a lot of flashlights. I have tried mini-mag lights, two D-Cell Mag Lites, three D-Cell Mag Lites, plastic lanterns that take the 6V lantern battery, Sabre Lights, mini LED lights that are on a keychain, LED arrays that are velcroed to the visor on my fire helmet, lights that are mounted to the sides of the fire helmet, Mag Chargers...............
Finally after about 19 years I found a flashlight that works every time I turn it on. It is very bright; it puts out far more light than another other light I have used and is a fraction of the size. It is rugged, I have never broken one, never broken a bulb. It doesn't have dark spots in the beam. The beam doesn't have to be adjusted; when I turn it on, it has the optimim beam pattern. I have never had it come on in storage so that it was dead when I tried to use it. I can put it in my back pocket and even sit on it and it is not big enough to cause me any significant discomfort.
And it is an $80 Surefire. Never once did I consider spending $80 for somthing that I use so much and is so critical to my job as being too expensive. Never once did I wish that I had saved a few bucks by buying an inferior product. Every time I pull out my flashlight, someone on the scene says that they need to buy one because it is so far superior to the one they are using.
To each his own. Some people get great satisfaction in trying to save a few bucks, other consider this false economy. Some people never know that a far better product exists and struggle on with what they have. I am happy that I am not a member of that group.
Not only was I not put off by the price, but since my enlightenment, I have purchased four other Surefire lights and will probably get a couple more. I have also bought two others and given them as presents. To me, a flashlight is a valuable item. When you need one, really NEED one, you want one that works. That is why I gave them as presents. It may someday save someone a lot of frustration or it may someday save their life.
One thing that I know for a fact: I use a flashlight extensively in my job. In the 20 years that I have worked this job, I have tried a lot of flashlights. I have tried mini-mag lights, two D-Cell Mag Lites, three D-Cell Mag Lites, plastic lanterns that take the 6V lantern battery, Sabre Lights, mini LED lights that are on a keychain, LED arrays that are velcroed to the visor on my fire helmet, lights that are mounted to the sides of the fire helmet, Mag Chargers...............
Finally after about 19 years I found a flashlight that works every time I turn it on. It is very bright; it puts out far more light than another other light I have used and is a fraction of the size. It is rugged, I have never broken one, never broken a bulb. It doesn't have dark spots in the beam. The beam doesn't have to be adjusted; when I turn it on, it has the optimim beam pattern. I have never had it come on in storage so that it was dead when I tried to use it. I can put it in my back pocket and even sit on it and it is not big enough to cause me any significant discomfort.
And it is an $80 Surefire. Never once did I consider spending $80 for somthing that I use so much and is so critical to my job as being too expensive. Never once did I wish that I had saved a few bucks by buying an inferior product. Every time I pull out my flashlight, someone on the scene says that they need to buy one because it is so far superior to the one they are using.
To each his own. Some people get great satisfaction in trying to save a few bucks, other consider this false economy. Some people never know that a far better product exists and struggle on with what they have. I am happy that I am not a member of that group.
Not only was I not put off by the price, but since my enlightenment, I have purchased four other Surefire lights and will probably get a couple more. I have also bought two others and given them as presents. To me, a flashlight is a valuable item. When you need one, really NEED one, you want one that works. That is why I gave them as presents. It may someday save someone a lot of frustration or it may someday save their life.
G&R Tactical
Member
Well put 444!
Intune
Member
Okay, so how 'bout a group buy of 10 or 20 G2's! I'm in! 
G&R Tactical
Member
I would be in! I could do $25.00 apiece + $4.00 shipping if everyone paid with a USPS money order or paid 2% for PayPal use....
Grant
Grant
VaughnT
Member
I'm in on a G2 group-buy. At $25 per unit, I'll take four (4), maybe six (6), depending on how soon we can make this happen. What would it cost to upgrade to the 6P?
One factor that is constantly brought up about the SF lights is that they are so small compared to other lights. I like that the batteries last near on forever and the fact that I can carry the 6P in a pocket without feeling weighed down. I can't imagine what it would take to break one.
For duty use, I wanted a light what was good (possibly a mini-mag), but which could also be operated by one hand. A twist-on light like the Maglite just doesn't work fast when you need it. They are also rather fragile and I've had far too many instances where the batteries went to pot while inside the light. I love them for the spare bulb carrier, but that's about where it ends. For the same length as the mini-mags, I can have a nicely built SF 6P that I know will take the abuse of daily carry but will work when I need it to.
Don't like to spend money where I don't have to, but this isn't one of those places.
One factor that is constantly brought up about the SF lights is that they are so small compared to other lights. I like that the batteries last near on forever and the fact that I can carry the 6P in a pocket without feeling weighed down. I can't imagine what it would take to break one.
For duty use, I wanted a light what was good (possibly a mini-mag), but which could also be operated by one hand. A twist-on light like the Maglite just doesn't work fast when you need it. They are also rather fragile and I've had far too many instances where the batteries went to pot while inside the light. I love them for the spare bulb carrier, but that's about where it ends. For the same length as the mini-mags, I can have a nicely built SF 6P that I know will take the abuse of daily carry but will work when I need it to.
Don't like to spend money where I don't have to, but this isn't one of those places.
mrstang01
Member
G&R, what about discounts on the regular 6P's? I'm interested, and I bet there will be some more folks too!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Chugach
Member
Why buy a Surefire?
Ever have an encounter that raised the hackles on your neck and you needed a light quickly?
We own a small cabin on 10 acres about 75 miles outside of Anchorage. I stepped outside it last fall to take a leak. At my most vulnerable moment, a large animal started crashing through the brush just yards away. I knew that it was probably either a moose or a black bear, but my eyes weren't adapted to the dark yet so all I had was noise to go by.
Out of reflex, my next actions were to (attempt to) draw my SIG P220 .45 and point it at the noise while simultaneously trying to draw, turn on, and focus an AA-size Mini MagLite. What a goat rope! Even after I got it turned on and focused (using 1 and 1/2 hands), the light output was too dim and there was that dead spot in the center of the beam.
I backed to the cabin, grabbed my 12 gauge and my SF Z2, then stepped back out. Can't tell you how comforting it was to have a lot of light to sweep the brush, and it only took one hand to manipulate the control.
In truth, the critter was probably just as rattled as I was and was long gone. Given the conditions and my slow, relaxed reflexes, they're wasn't a lot I could have done if it had wanted to walk all over me. Lesson learned...I'm not so blissfully unaware anymore, even when all is quiet in the "neighborhood".
Don't get me wrong...I have at least a dozen MagLite's collected over the years that are scattered over the house, in the cars, and at the cabin. I've also got 3 SureFires, and one stays on my hip now. Somebody said it before: it's an amazing amount of light in a very small, lightweight package, and it's easy to use one-handed.
On a lighter note, I was giving on of my revolvers the "Jim March Check-up" the other day, and the SureFire worked best to let me check cylinder charge hole/barrel alignments.
Ever have an encounter that raised the hackles on your neck and you needed a light quickly?
We own a small cabin on 10 acres about 75 miles outside of Anchorage. I stepped outside it last fall to take a leak. At my most vulnerable moment, a large animal started crashing through the brush just yards away. I knew that it was probably either a moose or a black bear, but my eyes weren't adapted to the dark yet so all I had was noise to go by.
Out of reflex, my next actions were to (attempt to) draw my SIG P220 .45 and point it at the noise while simultaneously trying to draw, turn on, and focus an AA-size Mini MagLite. What a goat rope! Even after I got it turned on and focused (using 1 and 1/2 hands), the light output was too dim and there was that dead spot in the center of the beam.
I backed to the cabin, grabbed my 12 gauge and my SF Z2, then stepped back out. Can't tell you how comforting it was to have a lot of light to sweep the brush, and it only took one hand to manipulate the control.
In truth, the critter was probably just as rattled as I was and was long gone. Given the conditions and my slow, relaxed reflexes, they're wasn't a lot I could have done if it had wanted to walk all over me. Lesson learned...I'm not so blissfully unaware anymore, even when all is quiet in the "neighborhood".
Don't get me wrong...I have at least a dozen MagLite's collected over the years that are scattered over the house, in the cars, and at the cabin. I've also got 3 SureFires, and one stays on my hip now. Somebody said it before: it's an amazing amount of light in a very small, lightweight package, and it's easy to use one-handed.
On a lighter note, I was giving on of my revolvers the "Jim March Check-up" the other day, and the SureFire worked best to let me check cylinder charge hole/barrel alignments.
mercop
Member.
Trying to explain Surefire, Emerson or Strider etc is of no use. Those who know just understand. My life depends on my gear so I buy the best. If you are buying a light at least spend the $30- for a G2. I will be spending approx $400 on Surefire stuff this month. Don't waste your money. But the good stuff and cry once. Not to mention SFs customer service.
Speaking of Surefire customer service. When I bought my first Surefire flashlight, I put it in my gear and didn't use it for awhile. When I went to use it, it didn't work. I played with it, cussed it, I changed batteries, but it wouldn't work. I called Surefire and told them it was defective. The woman on the phone said something to the effect, "I seriously doubt that, the odds on that light being defective are a million to one". She wasn't obnoxious about it, she said it like she was simply stating a fact. If you had heard her say it, you would have realized immediately that she believed it completely. In her mind they made a product that was all but infallable. Her tone of voice was such that it never occured to me to fly off the handle about having a bad light or about what she said; again, her total conviction made me believe it.
And, she was right. I am not going to go into details because I would hang my head in shame over how stupid I was. There was nothing wrong with the light, it was operator error. I use the same light every shift to this day.
How many companies have you ever dealt with that honestly believed down to their core, that their product was as close to perfect as you could get ? That tells ME a lot about Surefire.
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Hank Reardon, Dagney Taggart, or John Gault owned the Surefire company after hearing that woman on the phone.
And, she was right. I am not going to go into details because I would hang my head in shame over how stupid I was. There was nothing wrong with the light, it was operator error. I use the same light every shift to this day.
How many companies have you ever dealt with that honestly believed down to their core, that their product was as close to perfect as you could get ? That tells ME a lot about Surefire.
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Hank Reardon, Dagney Taggart, or John Gault owned the Surefire company after hearing that woman on the phone.
G&R Tactical
Member
Hey all, I would be all for a 6P group buy as well. Retail on them is $84.00 and I could do them for say $63.0 apiece if we got enough orders together. If you could get 15-20 orders I would make it $60.00 a pop. Sound good?
Thanks,
Grant
Thanks,
Grant
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
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Smartwool?
G&R, count me in for two, I'll be back in two weeks, I am currently overseas working a detail, and I have 3 Surefire's with me, L1, L4 and a 6Z.
I am glad there are lots of you out there who "understand" the need for quality gear that one day may save you.
G&R send me an email when you get ready to do the deed.
I am glad there are lots of you out there who "understand" the need for quality gear that one day may save you.
G&R send me an email when you get ready to do the deed.
G&R Tactical
Member
Hey Shadow 1, will do. I guess the best way is to have everyone that is interested in either the G2 or 6P group buy to e-mail me. Once I receive enough confirmations, I will place the order.
Thanks,
Grant
[email protected]
Thanks,
Grant
[email protected]
Hardcoat Anodizing
Hardcoat anodize, commonly referred to as Type III anodizing, is formed by using an electrolytic solution of sulfuric acid at approximately 32° F and a current density of 23 to 37 Amps per square foot. The process will run for 20 to 120 minutes depending on the alloy used and desired coating thickness. This will produce a generally gray coating 10µm to 50µm thick with 50% buildup and 50% penetration.
http://www.ihccorp.com/IHC-Hard_Anod.htm
A search for "hardcoat" over at the Thomas Register show 159 companies in the United States that perform this process. And that's only the companies that paid to be listed with Thomas.
http://www.thomasregister.com/Searc...at&sid=0307270948259000033801BW1&uuid=TRGuest
I can think of four companies in the Detroit area off the top of my head that do it.
It is not uncommon at all.
Hardcoat anodize, commonly referred to as Type III anodizing, is formed by using an electrolytic solution of sulfuric acid at approximately 32° F and a current density of 23 to 37 Amps per square foot. The process will run for 20 to 120 minutes depending on the alloy used and desired coating thickness. This will produce a generally gray coating 10µm to 50µm thick with 50% buildup and 50% penetration.
http://www.ihccorp.com/IHC-Hard_Anod.htm
A search for "hardcoat" over at the Thomas Register show 159 companies in the United States that perform this process. And that's only the companies that paid to be listed with Thomas.
http://www.thomasregister.com/Searc...at&sid=0307270948259000033801BW1&uuid=TRGuest
I can think of four companies in the Detroit area off the top of my head that do it.
It is not uncommon at all.
Kentucky Rifle
Member In Memoriam
Nobody else likes Arc LSH-P the best?
KR
KR
G&R Tactical
Member
Thank-you for the info SkunkApe. SF may have a special requirement for their flashlight anodizing. They tell me that there is only a couple places in the U.S. that will do it the way they want.
Shadow 1, that is a good idea!
Thanks,
Grant
Shadow 1, that is a good idea!
Thanks,
Grant
G&R Tactical,
You're welcome.
The Thomas Register is an excellent source.
I suspect that Surefire's "special requirement" is for marketing hype. As a manufacturing engineer familair with military gas turbine engines, I doubt Surefire's requirements are any more stringent than the military's.
Can't comment on how good their lights are, as I don't own one.
You're welcome.
The Thomas Register is an excellent source.
I suspect that Surefire's "special requirement" is for marketing hype. As a manufacturing engineer familair with military gas turbine engines, I doubt Surefire's requirements are any more stringent than the military's.
Can't comment on how good their lights are, as I don't own one.
G&R Tactical
Member
SkunkApe, it may be marketing "hype", but the info I got was from a friend that is a SF engineer. That info isn't on any marketing media. I was already a SF dealer so I don't think he told me about it to get me to buy something. Since you don't own a SF product, now is the perfect time to do so. There is going to be a group buy for either a G2 or 6P.
Thanks,
Grant
Thanks,
Grant
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