Surgeon vs Stiller vs Defiance

[zerobarrier]

Ok so really what's the difference? Is one better than the other? Prices are close to the same, Surgeon 1295, Defiance 1330, and Stiller 1005. I started another thread trying to decide between 2 different calibers, I decided 6.5, still between 6.5cm or 6.5x55 Swede, That I will figure out. Now I need to decide which receiver to start with. I am 95% sure I am going with a bartlein barrel and a timney calvin elite trigger with a chassis system. I think I am leaning towards the Surgeon but wanted some opinions. Anyone have all three and a favorite between them, what makes it your favorite? I am sure this is one of those personal preference things.


As always an info or opinions are welcome
Thanks

 

[TIMC]

I have never had a complete action but I have used Surgeon bottom metal on a Remington 700 action I built with a shilen barrel. The machine work on the bottom metal was nice, I would not have any issues going with a complete action if I was going to do another build.

As far as the caliber, I really like the 6.5x55 Swede and light bullets. I'm getting sub moa performance with 100 grain and 120 grain bullets out of a factory CZ 550

 

[taliv]

I have owned multiple surgeon and defiance and one stiller. Of the three the only one I would recommend is the defiance.
I sold my surgeons and stiller

Edit to add I'm not saying the surgeon is crap. It's a good action.

 

[LocoGringo]

Before you decide on a trigger, you first have to find out if it is compatible. I originally bought a Timney trigger to go with a Lawton action. I had ordered the Lawton and sent a deposit, but it was right when the shop manager was embezzling the cash and made off with it. I got nothing after sending in a $450 deposit.

After I recovered from the disappointment and realized I would have to start over, I was holding the Timney trigger (I forget which specific model it was) and ordered a Defiance. Shortly afterward, I learned that the trigger I had was not compatible with the Defiance action. Fortunately, Timney's customer service was PERFECT and exchanged the correct trigger for me at no cost.

My point is this...decide on the action first and build around it. I agree with your choice of barrel, but make sure the trigger is compatible with the action you (eventually) decide on.

As far as preference of the 3 actions, I have no idea. I don't know what you're basing your prices on as the Defiance has so many options. I forgot why I chose the Defiance over the Surgeon and Stiller. I only have experience with the Defiance and it's been all good.

Good luck with your build and enjoy the process. It takes a while, but is very rewarding and educational. Research also what you want to do with the rifle and figure out what bullet(s) you want to use and match the twist rate. There's a lot to look at and learn.

 

[taliv]

Most people shooting defiance actions are probably using timney triggers. Curious what version you had that wouldn't work.

That said you do have a valid point. My fav x-treme mod22 triggers have a long bar that the trigger slides forward and backward on. This bar won't fit in several bottom metals and chassis including the sentinels. A few minutes with a dremel fixed the problem but did reduce the range of adjustability

 

[LocoGringo]

Curious what version you had that wouldn't work. Taliv


If I remember correctly, it was something like I ordered a 510 from Midway and needed the 510c (or something like that) because the more common model isn't compatible with the Defiance action. I don't remember exactly as it was several years ago. The Defiance is a little odd that way.

 

[zerobarrier]

Before you decide on a trigger, you first have to find out if it is compatible.


As far as preference of the 3 actions, I have no idea. I don't know what you're basing your prices on as the Defiance has so many options.
.

Thanks I will make sure the trigger is compatible. I will get the action and barrel first then decide, I like timney and the calvin elite can be adjusted down to 8oz, but I will use 1lb if I can. If I have to go Jewell or something else I will, I have just only used timney or Gieselle(ar triggers) upgraded triggers. So that's what I am use to

I got those prices off bugholes.com southern precision rifles. It says the Defiance Deviant short action 308 bolt face. They are out of stock at the moment but have the ones that have a small firing pin .062, What does that mean?

 

[zerobarrier]

I have owned multiple surgeon and defiance and one stiller. Of the three the only one I would recommend is the defiance.
I sold my surgeons and stiller

Edit to add I'm not saying the surgeon is crap. It's a good action.

What do you like about the Defiance over the Surgeon? I'm sure its a personal preference for you but just curious.

 

[taliv]

you can get a defiance any way you want. they can maintain quality and reasonable shipping times while still offering many different choices of everything from feed/eject port geometries to extractor type. for example, i have one left handed defiance, and one left bolt right port. as far as i know, surgeon only ever made 2 left handed. if you can only get it in one configuration, it doesn't really qualify as a 'custom' action, eh?

 

[zerobarrier]

you can get a defiance any way you want. they can maintain quality and reasonable shipping times while still offering many different choices of everything from feed/eject port geometries to extractor type. for example, i have one left handed defiance, and one left bolt right port. as far as i know, surgeon only ever made 2 left handed. if you can only get it in one configuration, it doesn't really qualify as a 'custom' action, eh?

I contacted GA Precision and they said they will not just sell the action alone. Defiance and Templar are the same thing right? Where do you order different option of the defiance action at?

Nevermind a quick google search and I found it. But are GAP Templar and defiance the same? Although I can get defiance's webpage to open.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Defiance makes the actions for GA Precision right?

 

[taliv]

not exactly the same thing. GAP orders a specific config of the defiance action and calls it the Templar (and templar V2 is their config of a defiance Deviant). but they also make guns with surgeon actions. i forget what they're called.

order direct from defiance. lots of places may have them in stock (try bugholes or OTM tactical or maybe 3rdgenss)

 

[zerobarrier]

not exactly the same thing. GAP orders a specific config of the defiance action and calls it the Templar (and templar V2 is their config of a defiance Deviant). but they also make guns with surgeon actions. i forget what they're called.

order direct from defiance. lots of places may have them in stock (try bugholes or OTM tactical or maybe 3rdgenss)

Thanks a lot taliv. I will look into the different options, still on the fence though between Defiance and Surgeon.

 

[LocoGringo]

It's already been answered, but Defiance makes Templar for GAP.

I just ordered my actions (I've done 2 builds) directly from Defiance. They are very helpful and help you sort out the options. Be sure to TELL THEM if you plan on cerakoting your action because if you do, they will machine a wee bit of extra room to leave space for the cerakoting. Otherwise, the action will be VERY tightly toleranced and you won't be able to cerakote the action without removing the coat from the surfaces that come into contact. Plan your build thoroughly and completely to understand and know your options. Have fun with it.