SW99 in .45 ACP
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Tweek
Member
Yeah, I thought the decocker was in a strange location also. I'm used to the safety/decocker on the HK USP. But it works very well and is easy to get to with the thumb. Just press down.
S&W said the SW99 .45 will be out in May. I've heard nothing but good reviews about it. The Corbon folks said it is definitely a hot pistol. It also seems to feed anything, including SWC's, which is really cool.
Interesting that the SW99 .45 is coming out at the same time as the Glock 37 with their new slimline .45 models, which means the .45 cartridges fit in standard size pistols, but can only go up to 200 grain size bullets.
But if the SW45 has a grip that small and medium sized hands like, it could be a tie breaker and pull ahead of the new .45 Glock caliber. So many people have said the .45 Glocks are great pistols, but the grip is just a little too big. Let's see what happens.
A 9 round SW99 .45ACP versus a 10 round Glock 37 .45G. Before you start scoffing at the shortened .45G caliber, remember that Glock already has interest and probable customers lined up. Who's a betting man?
Interesting that the SW99 .45 is coming out at the same time as the Glock 37 with their new slimline .45 models, which means the .45 cartridges fit in standard size pistols, but can only go up to 200 grain size bullets.
But if the SW45 has a grip that small and medium sized hands like, it could be a tie breaker and pull ahead of the new .45 Glock caliber. So many people have said the .45 Glocks are great pistols, but the grip is just a little too big. Let's see what happens.
A 9 round SW99 .45ACP versus a 10 round Glock 37 .45G. Before you start scoffing at the shortened .45G caliber, remember that Glock already has interest and probable customers lined up. Who's a betting man?
fastbolt
Member
Personally, I'm willing to bet there's going to be a market for both the G37 in .45 Glock, and the SW99 in .45 ACP ... as they're not exactly the same thing, and will probably appeal to different folks for different reasons.
The SW99 in .45 ACP will fire the standard .45 pistol cartridge, which includes bullet weights from the new ultra-lightweight 165gr, up to the venerable and popular 230gr loads, and everything inbetween, including the +P pressure versions.
The .43 caliber .45 Glock, however, will only offer the 185gr & 200gr bullets ... and the published velocities will offer some "improvement" over the .40 S&W loads which are very close in size, weight and velocities. The 185gr load is listed hovering around 1050fps, which is what the popular 165gr .40 rounds offer, and the 200gr .45 Glock is listed at about 1050fps, which is just a tad more than the .40's 180gr loads at 950-1000fps.
The corresponding bullet weights in 185gr & 200gr +P .45 ACP loads are sometimes rated at slightly faster velocties than those listed for the .45 Glock, but then they're also loaded down slower, too ... depending on the company. Once the ballistics "hype" is settled, and actual velocities are obtained when fired from production pistols, we'll have a better idea of what it all means ...
The .45 Glock may not be an actual .45 caliber cartridge, but it may offer some slight improvement over the 2 popular .40 loads on the market, and in the same size pistol platforms.
Once the sectional densities of the new .43 caliber bullets are studied in ballistics testing, and we have a better idea of how this fledgling cartridge "performs" ... we'll know whether Glock has built a better mousetrap with his .43 caliber cartridge, and bridged the "gap" between the existing .40 and .45 caliber loads ...
It'll be interesting to see how Speer approaches the new ground created between the current .40 and .45 caliber loads, and how the sectional densities of the new caliber bullets affect "performance" at the listed velocities, what the pressures are, etc. ... and how the pressures & overall perceived recoil characteristics affect "shootability", comfort, recovery, etc ... those totally subjective qualities of handguns debated endlessly ...
For those folks that desire a pistol that chambers the traditional .45 ACP, in all its myriad loadings and pressures from light-to-heavy bullets, standard to +P ... there will be the SW99, with a grip that can be configured to fit just about any shooter's hand ... and maybe a P99 in .45 ACP, if Walther sees a potential market ...
And for those folks that desire something "new" in their favorite Glock platform, and a caliber that's closer to the actual .45 ACP than anything else on the market ... there's the new .45 Glock ... and which might be offered in compact and subcompact models as are other calibers in the Glock platform ...
It'll also be interesting to see if any other firearms & ammunition manufacturers become interested in this new caliber anytime soon. Considering all of the 9mm & .40 S&W platforms saturating the marketplace, the slightly smaller .45 Glock cartridge could be released in any number of the smaller 9mm & .40 S&W pistols ... depending on the pressure levels, of course ... although most quality pistols which chamber the .40 S&W have already been beefed up to handle that cartridge.
The current handgun market is anything but boring ...
The SW99 in .45 ACP will fire the standard .45 pistol cartridge, which includes bullet weights from the new ultra-lightweight 165gr, up to the venerable and popular 230gr loads, and everything inbetween, including the +P pressure versions.
The .43 caliber .45 Glock, however, will only offer the 185gr & 200gr bullets ... and the published velocities will offer some "improvement" over the .40 S&W loads which are very close in size, weight and velocities. The 185gr load is listed hovering around 1050fps, which is what the popular 165gr .40 rounds offer, and the 200gr .45 Glock is listed at about 1050fps, which is just a tad more than the .40's 180gr loads at 950-1000fps.
The corresponding bullet weights in 185gr & 200gr +P .45 ACP loads are sometimes rated at slightly faster velocties than those listed for the .45 Glock, but then they're also loaded down slower, too ... depending on the company. Once the ballistics "hype" is settled, and actual velocities are obtained when fired from production pistols, we'll have a better idea of what it all means ...
The .45 Glock may not be an actual .45 caliber cartridge, but it may offer some slight improvement over the 2 popular .40 loads on the market, and in the same size pistol platforms.
Once the sectional densities of the new .43 caliber bullets are studied in ballistics testing, and we have a better idea of how this fledgling cartridge "performs" ... we'll know whether Glock has built a better mousetrap with his .43 caliber cartridge, and bridged the "gap" between the existing .40 and .45 caliber loads ...
It'll be interesting to see how Speer approaches the new ground created between the current .40 and .45 caliber loads, and how the sectional densities of the new caliber bullets affect "performance" at the listed velocities, what the pressures are, etc. ... and how the pressures & overall perceived recoil characteristics affect "shootability", comfort, recovery, etc ... those totally subjective qualities of handguns debated endlessly ...
For those folks that desire a pistol that chambers the traditional .45 ACP, in all its myriad loadings and pressures from light-to-heavy bullets, standard to +P ... there will be the SW99, with a grip that can be configured to fit just about any shooter's hand ... and maybe a P99 in .45 ACP, if Walther sees a potential market ...
And for those folks that desire something "new" in their favorite Glock platform, and a caliber that's closer to the actual .45 ACP than anything else on the market ... there's the new .45 Glock ... and which might be offered in compact and subcompact models as are other calibers in the Glock platform ...
It'll also be interesting to see if any other firearms & ammunition manufacturers become interested in this new caliber anytime soon. Considering all of the 9mm & .40 S&W platforms saturating the marketplace, the slightly smaller .45 Glock cartridge could be released in any number of the smaller 9mm & .40 S&W pistols ... depending on the pressure levels, of course ... although most quality pistols which chamber the .40 S&W have already been beefed up to handle that cartridge.
The current handgun market is anything but boring ...
FYI:
I've talked to the CCI folks who are putting the finishing touches on the .45 glock caliber. The bullet is indeed a true .45 size bullet. The initial shot show brochure of .43 is a misprint.
If the SW99 grip can be configured for small and medium size hands, it could become a real winner. Then again, maybe Walther will go with the .45 Glock caliber.
I've talked to the CCI folks who are putting the finishing touches on the .45 glock caliber. The bullet is indeed a true .45 size bullet. The initial shot show brochure of .43 is a misprint.
If the SW99 grip can be configured for small and medium size hands, it could become a real winner. Then again, maybe Walther will go with the .45 Glock caliber.
Spackler
Member
I understand that the new Glock caliber is actually called "45 Glock". There is no decimal point. Curious.
fastbolt
Member
Something in the literature displayed from the Shot Show isn't accurate regarding this new caliber ... but which is the incorrect data?
Is the bullet diameter 11mm or .43 inches? Or neither?
.451 inches equals 11.4554mm
.43 Inches equals 10.922mm
11mm equals 0.433071 Inches
Is .43 caliber incorrect? Or, is the 11mm measurement inaccurate?.
Are both measurements displayed by Glock incorrect, and the 45Glock is actually a .451-.452 bullet with a metric measurement of 11.45-11.48mm?
You'd certainly think Speer would know, being the primary ammunition developer for this new cartridge, but if you only spoke to a customer service person they could easily be simply repeating the new caliber's name, and assume that it's a true .45 caliber bullet becasue it's called 45Glock. Not everyone that answers the phones at the various firearms & ammunition companies are technical folks, or even give the same answer twice in a row, depending on who they turn to for answers ... or if someone else answers the phones ... But that's normal in large companies.
It would be a less than perfect beginning for both of the caliber measurements displayed by Glock at the Show to be inaccurate ... and not really in keeping with their "Perfection" trademark ...
I'm curious to see the first one come through our range ... This may be a "better mousetrap" ... Or, it may an answer for a question which nobody else has thought to ask yet ...
If this caliber is popular and in general non-L/E & L/E use in 10 years ... then it's another good idea, and many of our firearms collections will be the richer for it. Like the .40 S&W, for instance ...
If not, then it's another .41AE ...
Just out of curiosity, when you spoke to Speer did they give you a metric measurement for the bullet they're using? Are they using their existing Gold Dot .45 185gr & 200gr bullets (which are neither .43 nor 11mm)? That might settle this question ...
Is the bullet diameter 11mm or .43 inches? Or neither?
.451 inches equals 11.4554mm
.43 Inches equals 10.922mm
11mm equals 0.433071 Inches
Is .43 caliber incorrect? Or, is the 11mm measurement inaccurate?.
Are both measurements displayed by Glock incorrect, and the 45Glock is actually a .451-.452 bullet with a metric measurement of 11.45-11.48mm?
You'd certainly think Speer would know, being the primary ammunition developer for this new cartridge, but if you only spoke to a customer service person they could easily be simply repeating the new caliber's name, and assume that it's a true .45 caliber bullet becasue it's called 45Glock. Not everyone that answers the phones at the various firearms & ammunition companies are technical folks, or even give the same answer twice in a row, depending on who they turn to for answers ... or if someone else answers the phones ... But that's normal in large companies.
It would be a less than perfect beginning for both of the caliber measurements displayed by Glock at the Show to be inaccurate ... and not really in keeping with their "Perfection" trademark ...
I'm curious to see the first one come through our range ... This may be a "better mousetrap" ... Or, it may an answer for a question which nobody else has thought to ask yet ...
If this caliber is popular and in general non-L/E & L/E use in 10 years ... then it's another good idea, and many of our firearms collections will be the richer for it. Like the .40 S&W, for instance ...
If not, then it's another .41AE ...
Just out of curiosity, when you spoke to Speer did they give you a metric measurement for the bullet they're using? Are they using their existing Gold Dot .45 185gr & 200gr bullets (which are neither .43 nor 11mm)? That might settle this question ...
I talked to a CCI guy in the technical ballistics group. He gave me the measurement as .45 inches, just like the .45ACP. In the shot shot brochure, it states 11.5mm which is correct. Underneath the mm measurement, it mistakenly states .43 inches.
He also said that they are doing some last minute tweaking of the caliber and it isn't firm yet. They plan on duplicating the .45ACP in pressure more or less, with the same ballistics more or less. I was really hoping they were a little farther advanced, since the G37 is coming out May 1. I'll keep checking back on a regular basis.
The brochure also states .45 Glock, using the decimal point. Here's a url pointer to some views of the brochure, if you are interested:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/shot.show.2003.htm
If you have visited glocktalk, you know there are a lot of unhappy campers who wanted a real .45ACP single stack pistol.
Apparently Glock does indeed have very interested customers. For years folks have been telling Glock that they love the Glock .45 pistols, but the grip is too big. Well, this is Glock's answer. If anybody has the marketing and connections to pull off this new caliber, it's Glock. Some folks who are tired of the .40 kaboom issue will also be interested in this big fat bullet that fits in standard size pistols and has a low pressure to boot.
I'm not trying to plug it. But as a hobbyist, I'm interested in testing it out.
I hope Corbon comes on line with some of their cool stuff, that is when they finally can find out what the .45G specs are frozen at.
He also said that they are doing some last minute tweaking of the caliber and it isn't firm yet. They plan on duplicating the .45ACP in pressure more or less, with the same ballistics more or less. I was really hoping they were a little farther advanced, since the G37 is coming out May 1. I'll keep checking back on a regular basis.
The brochure also states .45 Glock, using the decimal point. Here's a url pointer to some views of the brochure, if you are interested:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/shot.show.2003.htm
If you have visited glocktalk, you know there are a lot of unhappy campers who wanted a real .45ACP single stack pistol.
Apparently Glock does indeed have very interested customers. For years folks have been telling Glock that they love the Glock .45 pistols, but the grip is too big. Well, this is Glock's answer. If anybody has the marketing and connections to pull off this new caliber, it's Glock. Some folks who are tired of the .40 kaboom issue will also be interested in this big fat bullet that fits in standard size pistols and has a low pressure to boot.
I'm not trying to plug it. But as a hobbyist, I'm interested in testing it out.
I hope Corbon comes on line with some of their cool stuff, that is when they finally can find out what the .45G specs are frozen at.
Spackler
Member
a-ha! My information about the decimal point came from Dean Speir's site. It appears to be incorrect. My apologies.
fastbolt
Member
Excellent info. Thanks Pete ...
That's more than the hysteria and whining over on GT has been able to produce lately. I finally quit reading about it over there because of the reactions ...
Interesting slant on making a .45 pistol that fits small hands better ... change the cartridge. This may be the answer, but you're right ... I think a lot of folks wanted it the other way around, with the platform specially redesigned. Unfortunately, this solution does eliminate those potential shooters that favor the standard 230gr bullet weight, in favor of those that will accept the ballistics of the lighter rounds ...
Personally, I have little interest in the 185gr & 200gr .45 bullet weights, so this "caliber" won't be something I'll be interested in owning. My .45 ACP & .40 S&W pistols more than covers my needs ... but then, that's because I can cpmfortably handle the pistols that chamber the regular .45 ACP cartridge. Perhaps the smaller statured shooters will flock to this new caliber & platform combination ...
In a way, it's too bad Glock didn't come up with some innovative redesign efforts to slim down his G21 & G30 frames, and perhaps reduce the girth of his magazines by going to metal magazine bodies, instead of the thicker metal lined polymer magazines. Using metal magazine bodies would certainly help eliminate some of the deformation, cracking & peeling issues that occur from time to time ... as well as allow for the empty magazines to more easily and uniformly fall free from the grip frame. It's not like Glock has any huge military contracts requiring the use of non-drop free magazines anymore ... but they could remain an option even if that were the case.
Makes for a new twist in the horse race, though ...
That's more than the hysteria and whining over on GT has been able to produce lately. I finally quit reading about it over there because of the reactions ...
Interesting slant on making a .45 pistol that fits small hands better ... change the cartridge. This may be the answer, but you're right ... I think a lot of folks wanted it the other way around, with the platform specially redesigned. Unfortunately, this solution does eliminate those potential shooters that favor the standard 230gr bullet weight, in favor of those that will accept the ballistics of the lighter rounds ...
Personally, I have little interest in the 185gr & 200gr .45 bullet weights, so this "caliber" won't be something I'll be interested in owning. My .45 ACP & .40 S&W pistols more than covers my needs ... but then, that's because I can cpmfortably handle the pistols that chamber the regular .45 ACP cartridge. Perhaps the smaller statured shooters will flock to this new caliber & platform combination ...
In a way, it's too bad Glock didn't come up with some innovative redesign efforts to slim down his G21 & G30 frames, and perhaps reduce the girth of his magazines by going to metal magazine bodies, instead of the thicker metal lined polymer magazines. Using metal magazine bodies would certainly help eliminate some of the deformation, cracking & peeling issues that occur from time to time ... as well as allow for the empty magazines to more easily and uniformly fall free from the grip frame. It's not like Glock has any huge military contracts requiring the use of non-drop free magazines anymore ... but they could remain an option even if that were the case.
Makes for a new twist in the horse race, though ...
Well, I suppose that's where the new SW99 .45 comes in. It's fairly slim compared to Glock and HK .45's, and still packs 9 + 1. This could be a winner.
Glock apparently is happy with their formula and doesn't appear to want to make any drastic changes at all. Interesting.
I'll have to see how BrokenArrow likes his new SW99 .45.
Glock apparently is happy with their formula and doesn't appear to want to make any drastic changes at all. Interesting.
I'll have to see how BrokenArrow likes his new SW99 .45.
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