SWAT raid goes well....

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...for all involved. They had done their intel, didn't provoke a standoff and chose the safest course for everyone.

Kudos to whoever was in charge. I'm sure this is more the norm than the horror stories that get the news.

From a report on MSNBC online on Aug. 6th (link changed on me :eek: )

2-year-old complicates arrest

Late Thursday, police SWAT teams encircled the apartment, but didn’t try to make a forced entry, knowing that Hausner’s 2-year-old daughter was inside, Harris said. They waited until Dieteman came out to dump the garbage to arrest him, then took Hausner into custody a short time later when he came outside.

“The child was not involved, was not harmed and was returned to the mother,” Harris said.
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Patience is a virtue. Now why is it that the daughter being there was the main reason they chose to just wait him out? Wouldn't it make sense to do it that way in any case?
 
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That would cost money in the form of man hours. The suspects life wasn't worth it, apparently the 2 year old's life was.
 
A kids life is always worth it but man that ticks me off the way people do not care about the saftety of their own. If you are going to do something stupid make sure it is just you doing it.
 
Steve,

I wanted people to look at it?

I can change it to "SWAT raid goes well" if you prefer. I have no agenda involved, other than referencing the "SWAT raids are uniformly bad" theme that seems to come up.
 
The presence of the 2 year old and neighbors, "vulnerable potential hostages", as well as the suspects being "heavily armed and violent", could have turned this into another horror story if a more aggressive commander had figured a dynamic entry was the best course of action. "Gotta go in and take them down and save that kid!"

Instead a calm head said, "Gee, let's get them when they are away from cover and the long guns AND while the 2 year old and neighbors won't get caught in the crossfire, since no one is actively in danger at the moment."
 
OK, so a SWAT raid went well.

Now tell us what the guy was wanted for and if a SWAT raid was warranted in the first place.

I suspect it's more like the usual use of these teams, to serve arrest warrants that would normally be no big deal, but the SWAT team is used to justify its' continued existence.

If the guy was arrested at his garbage container, without incident, why exactly was a SWAT team needed?
 
OK, so a SWAT raid went well.

Now tell us what the guy was wanted for and if a SWAT raid was warranted in the first place.

I suspect it's more like the usual use of these teams, to serve arrest warrants that would normally be no big deal, but the SWAT team is used to justify its' continued existence.

If the guy was arrested at his garbage container, without incident, why exactly was a SWAT team needed?
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Who cares why they used a swat team? The cops did the right thing in the right way and no one got hurt and the BG goes to jail. What more can you ask for?

They do some dumb or ill-advised things now and then that get a lot of attention, and a lot of well deserved criticism. Mostly, when they do it right, there is little attention paid because it is not newsworthy.
 
Ilbob said:
Who cares why they used a swat team? The cops did the right thing in the right way and no one got hurt and the BG goes to jail. What more can you ask for?
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I gotta agree. Most times you hear about swat raids executed with flashbangs, broken doors, gun shots, and sometimes murdered innocents. This one sounded like what ALL swat raids should be. Patience and execution of the arrest at the appropriate time to avoid any unnecessary violence and risk to life.
 
TexasSIGman said:
If the guy was arrested at his garbage container, without incident, why exactly was a SWAT team needed?
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These two fellers that went around the the Pheonix, AZ area and allegedly killed two people and shot 13 others.

<Gratuitous bash removed by Art>
 
Sorry Texassig,

I couldn't find the dang link to the particular story I quoted anymore but I could have put in the details to set the scene. :banghead:

It is in fact the Phoenix serial shooters. The cops had been following them for a few days and finally moved when they got corroboration for the tips that led them to the suspects.
 
indeed

"it was a SWAT raid that didn't happen at all, due to a commander having the brains to understand that it was not necessary. "

and as a result no one and nothing got hurt. which was what swat is supposed to do. i think sometimes its like that scene in braveheart the get all dressed up with no place to go. and that addresive mindset they cultivate makes em say heck we're her might as well...


















'
 
While the style of post does appear to be blatantly LEO-apologist, there's nothing wrong with that. I am glad to hear that things went well. I am sure the decent LEOs and LEO-apologists get tired of reading about the misadventures of some yahoos whom with they happen to share an occupation.

Kinda like I would get tired if people were posting articles about servicemembers raping and murdering Iraqi civilians. No one likes to read about avoidable tragedies commited by others who wear their uniform.

I am very concerned about the over-militarization of LEAs and the erosion of constitutional rights, but I am not so wrapped around the axle about it that I can't recognize and applaud good police work. It's good to hear about cops getting BGs behind bars with everybody alive at the end.
 
I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with what the police did here. I don't think it could have been handled any better. Certainly SWAT should have been there as these guys were known to have shot people and you would have to fully expect they would shoot if provoked. And knowing that this commander used the element of surprise in an ingenius manner. Instead of the predictable, kick in the door and rush them, approach he sat back and outsmarted them.

I have watched Texas SWAT quite a few times and always wondered if it was really necessary to tear off the front and back doors with trucks and flash bang them while smashing windows and rushing with full auto weapons for drug offences. If you are going to justify that kind of raid the cold blooded killers above would be the more appropriate situation I would think. I don't think risking that many lives is worth it to preserve evidence. If the place is surrounded they can't escape so the only reason to storm the place is to keep evidence from being destroyed. Cost and manpower shouldn't be an issue when you are talking about risking lives versus not risking lives. I thought keeping people alive was the ultimate goal not preserving evidence. You can't prosecute the dead.

I used to watch COPS and wonder why some people run if the cops so much as look at them and then couldn't explain why they ran. Some of them had done nothing at all except flee the police. Then I saw the picture of Elian Gonzalez scared stiff in that closet and I understood it all. If a child gets bitten by a dog or sees someone bitten by a dog they are afraid of dogs for life. They never forget that fear. A child sees officers tackle a family member and roughly arrest them with shouting, loud bangs and guns pointed, even if the officers had no other choice, they get scared and never forget that fear. The SWAT commander above at least minimized that effect.
 
Sorry Texassig,

I couldn't find the dang link to the particular story I quoted anymore but I could have put in the details to set the scene.

It is in fact the Phoenix serial shooters. The cops had been following them for a few days and finally moved when they got corroboration for the tips that led them to the suspects.
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Thanks, I was just wondering why they were after the guy.

That would certainly warrant deploying a SWAT team, I just wondered.

Erebus said:
I have watched Texas SWAT quite a few times and always wondered if it was really necessary to tear off the front and back doors with trucks and flash bang them while smashing windows and rushing with full auto weapons for drug offences.
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That's what prompted my question. Here in the DFW area it seems that they like to depoly the SWAT team for every little thing. Busiest SWAT team in the nation they tell us, but we don't appear to capture a large number of violent criminals.

Using the SWAT team for pot busts is the norm around here, and we have had a few of those "oops we kicked in the wrong door, sorry" incidents because of that.
 
It leads to fewer dead cops and fewer dead bad guys. An ass in jail is a good thing.
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And a houseful of terrified kids who will no loner trust police officers for life is a bad thing. You just continued the problem for one more generation. I'm not saying that no knock raids shouldn't be a tool in the toolbox but they need to be used more conservatively. The phoenix guys were KNOWN to have weapons.
 
In the end, if you don't like the volume of these kind of raids, the proper people to deal with are the politicians who allow it. I guarantee you they can and will put a stop to it if you put enough of the right kind of pressure on them.

The cops that implement the raids are just employees doing as they are told. If told to stop by their employer, they will. It is that simple.
 
In the end, if you don't like the volume of these kind of raids, the proper people to deal with are the politicians who allow it. I guarantee you they can and will put a stop to it if you put enough of the right kind of pressure on them.

The cops that implement the raids are just employees doing as they are told. If told to stop by their employer, they will. It is that simple.
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Which employer? The politicians, or the police chiefs/sheriffs/etc who know that SWAT raids look sexy, make them look proactive, and make things seem more dangerous/serious than they might otherwise appear, and thus lead to higher budgets, notoriety, etc.? You can't always lay all the blame on politicians when the tactics being used are chosen by individuals below that level, but who often have their own agendas.

By the way, if this did involve the Phoenix killers (as I believe was stated above), then this was a prime example of two things: 1) a situation where SWAT was absolutely called for (additional training and gear in the hands of a team that has worked up together being invaluable in dealing with these types of individuals) and 2) a situation where there were more brains than firepower, leading to a beneficial result for all involved. Suspect gets a trial, cops go home safe, and innocent lives weren't put at risk.
 
"I have watched Texas SWAT quite a few times and always wondered if it was really necessary to tear off the front and back doors with trucks and flash bang them while smashing windows and rushing with full auto weapons for drug offences."

Do you mean Dallas SWAT?

If so, I've convinced myself that the show is fake after seeing a couple orange tips on weapons while in the field on the first episode. :eek:
 
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