Switching from shotgun to rifle

[TheGrouch]

For the past 5 yrs, I've used my shotgun for everything from hunting to home defense. It does everything I need inside of 75 yds. With ammo prices the way they are (60 cent-per-round buckshot/slugs), gonna have to switch to a rifle I can reload for (im not interested in purchasing a 12ga reloading setup.)


Primary purpose will be social work/home defense. Here's what I'm looking into, feel free to comment/critque:



Saiga 223

Rifle ~$300
$40 mags
Might chew brass??



Mini-14

Rifle $550-600
$50 factory mags
Throws brass into next county



Bushmaster-RRA-DPMS AR-15

Rifle $700-first born son
$18 mags
no idea what condition brass will end up in??




Leaning towards the AR with the Mini-14 in second place. Open to suggestions for any rifle I've overlooked.

 

[johnson_n]

You can find normal mags for $10 for the AR15. The Magpul PMAG's are only $14.50 in most online stores. Another brand of rifles to look at is the S&W M&P series. They have a $100 rebate right now that ends on April 31.

 

[Girodin]

If you convert you Saiga the price would be around $450 and a few hours of work, but you would have the following:

1. The ability to use much cheaper magazines. The price difference isgreater for the 7.62x39 but you will save money on .223 mags as well.

2. Conversion allows use of a much better trigger making it easier to shoot more accurately

3. The pistol grip (as well as my preference for a telescoping stock) make it much handier for tactical use.

Before I bought my first Saiga I looked into a Mini-14. I came to the conclusion that the Saiga is a better weapon.

After buying the parts for a conversion it is going to be $200 or so cheaper than the Mini. Thats a lot of ammo right there or money that could go towards a quality optical sight or flashlight.

Magazines are cheaper and more readily available.

AK reliability

You will be able to accesorize it to be just what you want.

I chose the Saiga over the mini and would pay a couple hundred more for an AR than a mini if my main purpose was HD. (I plan on buying an AR very soon).

To me it is a question of the Saiga vs the AR. Either one could do the task you are asking. All the standard Ak vs AR arguements apply. At 75 yds both will easily hit a bad guy. The ergonomics of an AR are much better. An Ak is always going to go boom, something that counts a lot for me in a defensive weapon.

I think the real question is would you rather spend $450 and the effort to convert a saiga or would you rather spend $800 on an AR.

I dont know how often you shoot but a lot of shells can be bought for the price of an AR, several magazines, sling, and any other accesories.

In conclusion if money is real tight the Saiga is a very good choice and IMO one of the best buys in guns today. A good AR is a solid choice as well. Both are better than the Mini generaly and for HD/SD specificaly IMO.

 

[ArmedBear]

(im not interested in purchasing a 12ga reloading setup.)

FYI reloading 12 Gauge well is far faster and easier than brass. A shotshell reloader can be made portable far more easily and works as well on a movable base as it does bolted to a bench. There's no tumbling, resizing is a quick process integrated into reloading, and shells can be picked up for free in unlimited quantities. Shotgun powder is bulky and cheap. You use a good amount of it, so getting consistent throws is easy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a rifle, for lots of reasons. However, if your only reason is so you can reload brass, I'd think again.

And a semiauto rifle can be a PITA for reloading. Last time I shot my AR outside, almost every case landed in some nice fine silt, and filled itself up with nice, gritty dirt.

 

[Vicious-Peanut]

I have a Mini-14 for plinking/Social work and I also reload for it. You can get a brass catcher for it or at the range I just sit on the left side of divided benches and let the plywood knock the brass out of flight for me. I have had good luck with the 20 round metal pro-mag magazines, however you luck may vary. What really appealed to me on the Mini was that I got it at a GREAT price (family) and its reliability.

All of them are great firearms, the Mini just has something about it. The look? Maybe, I don't really know.

 

[NG VI]

Too bad you didn't ask this question two weeks ago so you could have bought a CMMG Bargain Bin AR, I just picked mine up on thursday of last week and I love it.

I would be more inclined to buy the Saiga than the Mini, and I would buy an AR over a Mini. seriously, you will pay the difference between a decent AR and a cheap Mini anyway in Mini magazines, those things cost too much, way too much, especially when there are plenty of high quality USGI AR mags out there for $10 a pop. And if you ever want to tack on any tacticool stuff it will be easiest with the AR. I don't know how easy it would be with the other two, but with the AR it will be easiest and have the greatest level of customization, plus you can always get new uppers later, even ones in new calibers.

 

[TheGrouch]

Armed Bear,


I'm sorta kinda familiar with the shotshell reloading process. My biggest reason to not load for the 12ga is the cost of lead shot.


Field loads seems to be cheaper to buy than reload ($20/100 @Wally World). I could recover some costs by reloading 00 and 4 buck, but I think the S&H costs for shot will bite me in the rear.


I don't know of anyone that reloads slugs w/o casting their own lead. I won't cast lead for health reasons.


This is my dilemma. Love the shotgun, but I can reload .223 for around 14-17cents-per-round.

 

[TheGrouch]

All of them are great firearms, the Mini just has something about it. The look? Maybe, I don't really know.

I'm with ya 100%!

I LOVE the concept of a Mini-14. It's one of the best looking rifles (IMHO) with the best warranty.

You give me a Mini with:

Consistent 2MOA

$15 20rd mags

Flash suppressor (1X28 thread)

a nice neat pile of warm brass 2ft to the right of me


and I'll give you $600!

 

[ArmedBear]

Another option (one that I've recently gone with):

Build a dual-caliber AR. Check here: http://www.model1sales.com/catalog-list.cfm?Category=15&Subcat=.22LR Upper Halves&storeid=1

They have uppers that are a close match for anything you might buy in .223/5.56, in .22LR. They are true AR uppers, so they can be outfitted with any sights, foreends, and any other accessories that fit on an AR. Therefore, you can build one out that's a dead ringer for your centerfire, and allows really cheap but transferable practice.

Just pop off your centerfire upper and pop on the .22. Obviously, you want to be familiar with the centerfire's trajectory and practice with it occasionally, but you needn't put hundreds of rounds through it per week or anything, to become a good shot with the gun.

Unless you will be shooting way past 100 yards, these things will provide practice and fun plinking, and you don't even have to pick up your brass, except to avoid littering.

Just a thought...

Of course, a lot of people really enjoy reloading as a hobby unto itself. That's a whole different ballgame, and changes the equation considerably.

WRT the Mini vs. AR question... I like my Mini. It handles and points VERY well, especially for someone used to a shotgun. It's light, sleek and compact. It's reliable. Never had a FTF, ever, with the Mini, even dirty and with little oil left in it -- hell, even with a broken internal part. The thing sure does not demand much maintenance, especially for a semiauto. Can't quite say that about the AR, though the AR works great if given a modicum of care. The Mini is a world-class plinker and I'd trust it as a defensive firearm (mine's a stainless Ranch Rifle made a few years ago).

HOWEVER... I have a 20" HBAR and it is really nice and accurate. That's much more fun for paper-punching than the Mini-14 (supposedly the newest iteration is more accurate than mine). And I've warmed up to the AR ergonomics. At first, I didn't care for them.

 

[skinewmexico]

60 cents a round is pretty cheap! The brass for my 6.5X47 Lapua costs more than that!

 

[TheGrouch]

60 cents a round is pretty cheap! The brass for my 6.5X47 Lapua costs more than that!

Some how I doubt you're using that for defense purposes. The Norma brass I use for my K31 is pretty salty as well.


I thought I found THE rifle today, until I saw the price tag. $829 for a Mini-14 GB w/ flash suppresor.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=96107495

 

[pbrktrt]

take a look at the new NRA edition. it has everything you want in a mini.